P3te Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Firstly why is the 28th game of the season any more relevant than the 1st? because we've played 28 games this season, so it's a look at our team now vs mons team at the same point in his first season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 our squad was pretty damn poor that year. Sorensen Hutton Samuel > Stephens (Based on the fact he's actually played in the premierhip, not on potential) Mellberg > Collins Laursen > Dunne Barry > Ireland McCann > Herd Carew Delph (on Villa performances) Taylor = Guzan Agbonlahor = Agbonlahor Bouma > Warnock Young > N'Zogbia Hughes > Beye Ridgewell Lichaj Moore > Heskey Berger = Bannan Bardsley > Baker Gardner > Makoun (based on villa performances) Olejnik = Marshall Osbourne = Johnson Maloney = Gardner Angel > Delfouneso Whittingham > Jenas (based on villa performance) Baros > Weimann (based on villa performance) Djemba-Djemba Phillips Berson Kiraly Agathe O'Halloran Hendrie I'd argue that the 2006/07 squad was a stronger squad than our current one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 He bought Carew Ash and Petrov in his first 6 months With wages that was a £40m upwards commitment from the off McLeish is having to trim the wage bill and sell assets while bringing kids and Bosmans in And to think only a few short weeks ago you were suggesting we appoint David Platt as manager, now you're defending McLeish at every opportunity. The undeniable fact is that the squad at his disposal should not be in the bottom 6 and for that reason alone i hope he's serving up his brand of turgid crap elsewhere next season.This is what I don't understand. How can one go from heavily criticising him to constantly defending him in a matter of weeks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Just to put it in perspective, our team against Arsenal on the first day of the season: Sorensen, Hughes, Mellberg, Ridgewell, Samuel, Agbonlahor, McCann, Davis, Barry, Angel, Moore. Subs: Taylor, Phillips, Hendrie, Laursen, Djemba-Djemba Take MONs team in his 28th game and compare, it's more relevant Sorensen Bouma Mellberg Cahill Bardsley Young Petrov McCann Barry Gabby Carew I'd argue that's a much stronger XI than what we have nowThis discussion has taken an odd sort of direction now but what this shows is how MON managed to lick the squad into shape and make it more effective in his first season. That match 28 squad went on to achieve W4 D5 L1 for the rest of the season. Sure, MON had money to spend to strengthen the squad (don't recall any complaints about that at the time) but he had also brought on previously underperforming players and had found a better mix. McLeish has had a decent amount of money to spend- £3.5m on Given, £9.5m on N'Zogbia - as well as starting off with a much stronger squad, and arguably he hasn't made as much of the resources available to him as MON did. Maybe I'm wrong and maybe McLeish will end the season as strongly as MON did, in which case I will be the first to change my judgement. But as things stand, it looks as if McLeish started off with a stronger 1st XI than MON in 2006/7 (after a pre-season that MON didn't have), has been able to spend to strengthen the squad, and hasn't taken the team as far as MON did in his first season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Such is the fickle nature of today's fan, a win at Arsenal and the Holte will be singing his name next home game the holte end will NEVER sing his name True. But herein lies the problem. We could play like Barcelona and he would still get grief. Which is why all this 'its not because hes ex bluenose' is a load of bollocks. The 'negative' football thing is just a convenient excuse to lay into him. We havent played good football for fookin donkeys years so i dont see why all of a sudden Eck gets grief. Actually...i do see why, like i said its cuz of the ex bluenose thing. Probably best for all concerned if he does leave because a section of fans just cant get past his bluenose past. **** all to do with the apparent negative football we play First of all using "play like Barca" and McTool in the same sentence is just bizarre. Secondly, the section - which is rather large now I would add - don't like him because: - he plays dull football - he is a dull and uninspiring individual - he lacks class: i.e. he will blame anybody but himself if something goes wrong (Albie, SI and the Zog amongst others have all suffered from his cruel tongue after a game when he should have had the class to admit that it was fundamentally down to him) and he consistently distorts facts to suit himself as he did after the Fulham game when he claimed that the fans had booed him bringing on Weimann when he knows damn well that the majority of the fans are desparate to see the lad given more of a chance BUT were booing his decision to yet again take of the Zog whilst Albie was playing poorly. If Blues had played good football/won the league and we had pinched their manager. most of us would have been over the moon and crowing BUT they did not and we are not. I, as would most I know, allow Chrissy Hughton into the club as our new manager with open arms. Why? Because he is a bright young manager, who speaks well and is engaging and plays a nice brand of football that has had some success to date. Oh yes, and he also shows a bit of dignity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Just to put it in perspective, our team against Arsenal on the first day of the season: Sorensen, Hughes, Mellberg, Ridgewell, Samuel, Agbonlahor, McCann, Davis, Barry, Angel, Moore. Subs: Taylor, Phillips, Hendrie, Laursen, Djemba-Djemba Take MONs team in his 28th game and compare, it's more relevant Sorensen Bouma Mellberg Cahill Bardsley Young Petrov McCann Barry Gabby Carew I'd argue that's a much stronger XI than what we have nowThis discussion has taken an odd sort of direction now but what this shows is how MON managed to lick the squad into shape and make it more effective in his first season. That match 28 squad went on to achieve W4 D5 L1 for the rest of the season. Sure, MON had money to spend to strengthen the squad (don't recall any complaints about that at the time) but he had also brought on previously underperforming players and had found a better mix. McLeish has had a decent amount of money to spend- £3.5m on Given, £9.5m on N'Zogbia - as well as starting off with a much stronger squad, and arguably he hasn't made as much of the resources available to him as MON did. Maybe I'm wrong and maybe McLeish will end the season as strongly as MON did, in which case I will be the first to change my judgement. But as things stand, it looks as if McLeish started off with a stronger 1st XI than MON in 2006/7 (after a pre-season that MON didn't have), has been able to spend to strengthen the squad, and hasn't taken the team as far as MON did in his first season. One of the reasons for that is that he has no tactical sence at all.He keeps playing the players out of position and he has players on the bench that should be on the field.He plays 4-3-3 with a team that is set up to play 4-5-1 and he does that at home. I remember not too long ago when opposition teams were lucky to get a point at Villa Park ! now they must look forward to it as an easy 3 points. Geez how we have slipped. :oops: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 He bought Carew Ash and Petrov in his first 6 months With wages that was a £40m upwards commitment from the off McLeish is having to trim the wage bill and sell assets while bringing kids and Bosmans in And to think only a few short weeks ago you were suggesting we appoint David Platt as manager, now you're defending McLeish at every opportunity. The undeniable fact is that the squad at his disposal should not be in the bottom 6 and for that reason alone i hope he's serving up his brand of turgid crap elsewhere next season.This is what I don't understand. How can one go from heavily criticising him to constantly defending him in a matter of weeks? Posting for affect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Some people just like to go against the grain when they have a shave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Lerwill Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 ...I remember not too long ago when opposition teams were lucky to get a point at Villa Park ! now they must look forward to it as an easy 3 points. Geez how we have slipped. :oops: This has to be the saddest and most woeful development that has occurred. After all the huge re-development to get back to the top in the early '80s, then the resurgence from Graham Taylor onwards to the late 90s, what we have witnessed since (apart from MON's 3-year mirage-like charge) has been a a general decline in Villa's ability on their own pitch. No longer is it a question of how long has it been since we defeated Man U or Arsenal or Liverpool at Villa Park, but now whether we can keep off the likes of Swansea, QPR, Albion or Norwich!! I really wonder whether the management (top-down) really understand what they've allowed to happen - they were supposed to be an improvement over Doug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Love the way you've glossed over the rapid decline from 83 onwards until SGT arrived Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I think some people are in this topic to stir up controversy. What they are typing is not what they actually think, it is purely aimed at annoying other posters into an argument abit like talksport do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Lerwill Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 CI, I was not trying to do anything of the kind ... All I was trying to do was to show the general direction that the club had taken between 1969 and 1999. The downturn period of 1984-87 (I would say not 1983-) period was only 3 years. Anyway, this track is getting off topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Ok its been a roller coaster, but the whole landscape of football has changed Chelsea and Man City are now global giants for example, whereas in the 80s they were no bigger than say Sheffield Weds It's not as simplistic as you are portraying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted March 23, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted March 23, 2012 i don't think John was being simplistic, we're in a crap situation by all accounts as things stand. i don't go in for the over the top critisicism of AM, but he is not beyond being criticised for how this season has gone. the big question mark is what John is referring to. will AM be able to build a good squad over the summer and get them playing at the level we were so recently at? i.e. the big teams coming to VP and us having grounds to beleive we can turn them over personally i'm not convinced showing him the door and getting in yet another manager right now is the answer. i'm not convinced though that AM will get us back up to where we were though either! i'm willing to be convinced though, unlike a lot of people it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theunderstudy Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I'm not really sure we're looked forward to as a chance for an easy three points at VP. I think that's our fans own view of opposition teams these days, that they can get an easy three points. More likely, teams see as a chance to maybe get 3 but probably 1 point. I thought we were a defensive side, so how are we an easy three points? Surely that goes against it!? As I said, I'm more interested in us cementing our PL status first then seeing the necessary summer changes made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theunderstudy Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 he's merely a stopgap, to get the club into decent financial shape without the expense of our PL status. This is the bit of the argument I never can get. I don't see how we are getting into decent financial shape. We have sold off all our top stars, haven't replaced them adequately, and are changing into a mid table club with little ambition,unadventurous football, lower crowds and probably less attraction for players looking to move to premier league clubs. That may be shaping us to survive at the levels Lerner is now prepared to invest in the club but how is making our finances decent? i.e. Decent financial shape wage-wise. Our wage bill was once monstering that of Spurs', who had a far better squad to boot. I think people are expecting we'll be challenging for 6th again or something - we won't. We'll be challenging for 9th etc. People may not like it, but I see a very "uncompetitive" few years ahead. Barring a massively unlikely super-takeover, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Lerwill Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Ok its been a roller coaster, but the whole landscape of football has changed Chelsea and Man City are now global giants for example, whereas in the 80s they were no bigger than say Sheffield Weds It's not as simplistic as you are portraying Nothing of the kind. To say that Villa was generally on an 'up' between 1969 and 1999 is a given. What happened particularly between 2000 and 2006 caused a big push to get Doug to sell. What was then expected was a substantial improvement that a fair owner and extra money would bring. I am quite prepared to accept an occasional blip, but the past 2 seasons have been hard to take - particularly this season which has hardly a good thing to be said for it in terms of playing performances. The future is very questionnable with the manager we have. For a club that is supposed to be a sleeping giant and has many past glories, this is not what is required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Hang on a minute, you point the finger at McLeish but under MON the big 4 were regularly rocking up at Villa Park and waltzing away with the 3 points This is nothing new Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Lerwill Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I think we're getting a bit confused here, CI. :confused: I agree that happened under MON (and it goes back to the late 90s), but now we're in a situation where there's virtually no optimism before each match that comes around. I seem to recall that under MON there were some purple periods and there was never the despondency that now exists. As I said before, we now wonder whether Villa can get a win over teams like Swansea or QPR. Quite a different scenario (that 'orrible foreign word!) I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 ...I remember not too long ago when opposition teams were lucky to get a point at Villa Park ! now they must look forward to it as an easy 3 points. am sure under MON many teams came here and left with points as we struggled to break them down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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