The, he's finally GONE! Tell us your thoughts Thread

[Ginko]

We didn't play Barcelona football under O'Neill but he got results. The fact that he got results and McLeish hasn't is the reason fans are against McLeish. Were the majority of fans against Houllier because he had managed SHA too? No of course they weren't, it was because he wasn't getting results (and a few other valid reasons too).

Whereas I'm sure there's a small minority of fans who dislike McLeish because he is from SHA, the majority don't like him for plenty of other valid reasons.

[Pricey_1984]

some people on here thought 6th wasn't good enough and we played dull football, i didn't think that was the case.

[regular_john]

some people on here thought 6th wasn't good enough and we played dull football, i didn't think that was the case.

I don't think 6th was good enough given the money he had at his disposal. A more astute manager, or at least one that didn't limit himself to overpriced English players, could have built a much better side for the same money or less.

Quality of the football varied week to week IMO, sometimes it was world class and sometimes it was turgid.

[CI]

6 6 6 whilst hammering the best part of £200m on fees and wages is a massive under achievement in anybody's language

& he's set the club years back

It will take another 5 years before we fully exercise the ghost/damage of MON

[Mantis]

Such is the fickle nature of today's fan, a win at Arsenal and the Holte will be singing his name next home game

the holte end will NEVER sing his name

True. But herein lies the problem. We could play like Barcelona and he would still get grief. Which is why all this 'its not because hes ex bluenose' is a load of bollocks. The 'negative' football thing is just a convenient excuse to lay into him. We havent played good football for fookin donkeys years so i dont see why all of a sudden Eck gets grief. Actually...i do see why, like i said its cuz of the ex bluenose thing.

Probably best for all concerned if he does leave because a section of fans just cant get past his bluenose past. **** all to do with the apparent negative football we play

Enough of this "it's because of where he came from" rubbish. You say we could play like Barcelona (presumably with Barcelona results as well?) and he'd still get grief, how do you know? He's getting so much grief now because of how he approaches the game and because of the results he's getting. Funny how he never really got any grief up until results and performance started to get dire. Your post doesn't really make any sense.

And yes, we haven't played good football for ages but that doesn't mean the football we're having to put up with now isn't comparatively worse.

[BOF]

We need to be careful to stop blaming O'Neill at the point where the damage has been erased or at the point where it becomes a nonsense to do so. For example, how many players that have contributed very little are still at the club on huge wages thanks to MON? The only one that springs immediately to mind is Heskey. Anyone else on big wages has either justified them in some way (Bent) or they weren't signed by MON (Ireland) or both.

I just think that while he definitely had or has a case to answer, it can be too easy to continue to use him as an indefinite excuse for everything bad that follows and it becomes easy to tie our fate to him via some kind of a tenuous timeline. At some point he is no longer responsible and to be honest I think that point; if it has not already been reached; will be reached at the very latest this summer when Heskey is moved on.

We need to get over him.

[Mantis]

I think MON is merely one of the reasons behind our current predicament. Randy and McLeish are also to blame.

[CI]

Hang on, it's not just Heskey, MON left behind Beye, Davies, Warnock, Delph, Shorey, Dunne, Collins

The damage done cannot be merely brushed aside now

[BOF]

Hang on, it's not just Heskey, MON left behind Beye, Davies, Warnock, Delph, Shorey, Dunne, Collins

The damage done cannot be merely brushed aside now

I don't think you actually read what I wrote.

Beye - gone.

Davies - gone.

Shorey - gone.

Warnock, Dunne, Collins still first choice in the side for both subsequent managers and none on exorbitant wages.

Delph a kid who's out on loan.

My point is, the troublesome aspects of MON's legacy are GONE. Only Heskey really remains and he's gone in the summer.

So as I said, people need to start moving on and stop continuing to blame MON for what's happening today.

[Houlston]

I dunno BOF, Warnock, Collins and Dunne are very troubling at times.

[terrytini]

Hang on, it's not just Heskey, MON left behind Beye, Davies, Warnock, Delph, Shorey, Dunne, Collins

The damage done cannot be merely brushed aside now

Yet more prejudice masquerading as facts.

At the time hardly anyone had problems with these players, Dunne was seen as something of a coup, (City's fans Player of the Year), beye as reasonable 4th choice (Newcastle fans player of the year), Davies as probably expensive but a classy defender, Warnock who nearly got back into the England Team under MON, Collins (not a star agreed but well liked by Hammers fans - and the fact that some armchair critics don't like him isn't proof he was a bad buy), Delph was seen as quite a hot prospect, and Shorey appeared to be reliable, although uninspiring left back.

And these are the bad ones ?

When you then include Carew, Young, Milner, Downing, the other Young, Cuellar, etc, I am never really sur ewhere the myth of MON buying a load of crap came from.

And it really is time that just cos a few people think he 'Should' !!?? have fineshed higher the fact remains it was as good, as consistently good, as we have managed for many many years.

But yes, I agree, in any event what do the signings of these players have to do with the negative dross served up under Mcleish ?

Surely we all agree that our best 15 are a match for, say, Sunderlands best 15 ?

The thing that really annoys me about mcleish is he is a reasonable guy with a crap philosophy - had he been more adventourous overall (not all the time) we could easily be up with Liverpool as our first 15 (largely here since MON's time) are easily 10 points better than we have.

[BOF]

I dunno BOF, Warnock, Collins and Dunne are very troubling at times.

We're talking at cross purposes here clearly. Are they model pros. Not always. Is that the point here. No, because are they still 3 of the 4 first choice defenders on the team sheet when they're available and have they survived 2 managers since MON left? Yes theyhave. So they hardly fall into some list of bad legacy left behind by MON. Everyone knows what MON did wrong. By all means dislike them but that's different. I think people start lumping everything MON did into the bad pot. You become bad almost by association.

Our wage to turnover issue is not being caused by Warnock, Collins and Dunne and if they were as bad as some make out, then they'd have been dropped or replaced by now. Being bought by MON is their only crime here. An ill-tempered party and a dressing room bust up with a moody Frenchman notwithstanding, they've done alright while here.

[Stu_The_Villan]

Enough of this "it's because of where he came from" rubbish.

Its not rubbish. Its the truth. And you know it

[Mantis]

Enough of this "it's because of where he came from" rubbish.

Its not rubbish. Its the truth. And you know it

How is it? Maybe among a very very small minority of fans, but the large majority of people who aren't happy with him aren't happy with him because of the performances and results.

You posted absolutely nothing to disprove my point. You haven't got a leg to stand on here.

[terrytini]

Enough of this "it's because of where he came from" rubbish.

Its not rubbish. Its the truth. And you know it

Rather conceited to know so many fans thoughts, especially as so many have offered perfectly sound reasons for not wanting him.

I am telling you I don't care where he is from, and neither does any mature fan, what a childish, childish idea.

[Houlston]

I dunno BOF, Warnock, Collins and Dunne are very troubling at times.

We're talking at cross purposes here clearly. Are they model pros. Not always. Is that the point here. No, because are they still 3 of the 4 first choice defenders on the team sheet when they're available and have they survived 2 managers since MON left? Yes theyhave. So they hardly fall into some list of bad legacy left behind by MON. Everyone knows what MON did wrong. By all means dislike them but that's different. I think people start lumping everything MON did into the bad pot. You become bad almost by association.

Our wage to turnover issue is not being caused by Warnock, Collins and Dunne and if they were as bad as some make out, then they'd have been dropped or replaced by now. Being bought by MON is their only crime here. An ill-tempered party and a dressing room bust up with a moody Frenchman notwithstanding, they've done alright while here.

Not arguing that they dont effect the wages so much, but certainly on the playing side they do. Its also not always that easy to just move players on and I dont think it can be used as an argument to justify them not being that bad. Just because at one time they were good or part of a decent team does not mean that this standard is adhered to. And to be honest I agree their performances are often exaggerated but they have been at times, this season and last very poor for one reason or another. I dont think you'd find many fans wanting these three to stay on.

[Stu_The_Villan]

I am telling you I don't care where he is from

I could tell you the same thing. Doesnt make it true though does it?

[Stu_The_Villan]

He's getting so much grief now because of how he approaches the game and because of the results he's getting. Funny how he never really got any grief up until results and performance started to get dire. Your post doesn't really make any sense.

Sigh. Here goes:

1. How he approaches the game? I take it your going back to the 'negative' waffle?

2. The results hes getting? Even when we win he gets slated, so i dont know what youre talking about there.

3. Never got grief until results started to get dire?? What utter, utter bollocks. He was getting grief the minute he walked through the door.

Talk about my post not making sense? Unbelievable

[Mantis]

I am telling you I don't care where he is from

I could tell you the same thing. Doesnt make it true though does it?

So you can read people's minds then?

He's getting so much grief now because of how he approaches the game and because of the results he's getting. Funny how he never really got any grief up until results and performance started to get dire. Your post doesn't really make any sense.

Sigh. Here goes:

1. How he approaches the game? I take it your going back to the 'negative' waffle?

2. The results hes getting? Even when we win he gets slated, so i dont know what youre talking about there.

3. Never got grief until results started to get dire?? What utter, utter bollocks. He was getting grief the minute he walked through the door.

Talk about my post not making sense? Unbelievable

1. I take it you haven't watched many of our games this season. We've been negative in a hell of a lot of them.

2. We're 15th at the moment. That's nowhere near good enough. You can't expect people to not be pissed off about that

3. He got a lot of grief at the very beginning but once people got over what a ridiculously bad appointment it was they got behind him.

Yes, your post does not make sense. It would if we were doing well but the fact is we're not, hence the anger directed at McLeish.

[Zatman]

We didn't play Barcelona football under O'Neill but he got results. The fact that he got results and McLeish hasn't is the reason fans are against McLeish

thats really unfair as McLEish wasnt given the time MON was. MON 1st season we played some atrocious stuff and couldnt beat teams. Interestingly we were in a similar position in MON 1st season and only a great run in last 8 games brought us up to 11th