PieFacE Posted March 21, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted March 21, 2012 Mark is equally critical No disrespect to Mark at all, but this much defintely isnt true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Hmm, well you certainly seem a lot less fiery in your criticism of McLeish this season, despite him doing just a bad a job as Houllier did at this stage.To be brutally fair Mantis that could very easily be turned round to you ie you certainly seem a lot less fiery in your criticism of Houllier of last season , despite him doing just as bad a job as Mcleish is doing this season. I think Mark is equally critical of both to be honest and I have also been equally forthright in my opinion that both are shite managersYes, and as I've already explained more than once that's because my opinions of Houllier and McLeish are completely different, where as Mark thinks they're both very bad managers, so it couldn't be turned on me at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 How come Mark you constantly mention what you saw as gutless performances under Houllier yet you've been silent about McLeish? I'm not going to contest that there were some gutless games under Houllier but at least admit that McLeish has been just as bad. Have you ever glanced down at his sig.?What's that got to do with anything?Oh, sorry, nothing. The fact that Mark is pointing out in his sig that McLeish is as useless Houliier was obviously has nothing at all to do with a question about why he doesn't criticise McLeish the way he does Houllier! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 How come Mark you constantly mention what you saw as gutless performances under Houllier yet you've been silent about McLeish? I'm not going to contest that there were some gutless games under Houllier but at least admit that McLeish has been just as bad. Have you ever glanced down at his sig.?What's that got to do with anything?Oh, sorry, nothing. The fact that Mark is pointing out in his sig that McLeish is as useless Houliier was obviously has nothing at all to do with a question about why he doesn't criticise McLeish the way he does Houllier! I take it you don't read Mark's post. Even he himself admits he criticised Houllier a lot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 At least this thread is slowing down now, what are we averaging 3-4 pages a day Perhaps one or two are coming to terms with who's boss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 How come Mark you constantly mention what you saw as gutless performances under Houllier yet you've been silent about McLeish? I'm not going to contest that there were some gutless games under Houllier but at least admit that McLeish has been just as bad. Have you ever glanced down at his sig.?What's that got to do with anything?Oh, sorry, nothing. The fact that Mark is pointing out in his sig that McLeish is as useless Houliier was obviously has nothing at all to do with a question about why he doesn't criticise McLeish the way he does Houllier! I take it you don't read Mark's post. Even he himself admits he criticised Houllier a lot more.You may not have read his post. He's saying they are equally poor but he's realised there's a deeper problem with the board of which they both Houllier and McLeish are symptoms. However, this discussion really really really should close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie09 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I was at both games and neither were gutless. We were poor against Arsenal but we still scored twice. You'd think if we were gutless in that game they would've just run away with it and won 4 or 5 nil. As for the SHA game, it was just your standard bore draw with few chances for either side. I can understand why you might see the Arsenal game as gutless but this one really baffles me. If that's gutless then so too are a fair chunk of Villa performances over the last few years. I think yo use the word gutless a bit too often. I've always reserved that word for truly terrible performances like the 7-1 at Chelsea, 6-0 at Newcastle, 4-0 at City, 3-0 at City, 2-0 at Spurs, 0-1 against Man United, 0-2 against Liverpool, 0-1 against Man City, to name a few recent examples. Hmm, well you certainly seem a lot less fiery in your criticism of McLeish this season, despite him doing just a bad a job as Houllier did at this stage. Mate I am not going to argue with you over what I class as gutless tripe and what you consider gutless tripe. That is all down to individual standards and what each individual will find acceptable and how they will perceive any given performance. Over the last two seasons I'd definitely say we served up gutless tripe in 2010/11 against Man City away twice, Blackburn away, Liverpool away, Sha at home, Arsenal at home, Wolves at home, Sunderland at home. This season we served up similar tripe against Spurs away, and Liverpool and Man Utd at home. Whether you agree with that or not quite frankly I couldn't give two monkeys **** as you like me are entitled to come away from a game and judge the performance as you see fit. If I seem a lot less fiery in my criticism of McLeish maybe I am. Having been served up shit sandwich after shit sandwich over the last two seasons you almost become tired of whinging about it and it is now very apparent that the problems at this great club run deeper than the manager. I genuinely thought Houllier was just a blip for Lerner, that he'd learn from it and put things right. Having then kicked us in the teeth again by appointing McLeish I have now come to realise that screaming and shouting to get rid of him is all well and good but even if that happens we are still left with the same clowns picking our next manager. The same clowns who appointed McLeish and Houllier. :shock: Spot on Mark, i too thought that Houllier was a blip and Lerner would learn from the relegation near miss last season. Clearly he hasn't learnt from it and that is why I'm seriously considering whether to renew my 3 ST's next season after 42 consecutive years of having them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacketspuds Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 At least this thread is slowing down now, what are we averaging 3-4 pages a day Perhaps one or two are coming to terms with who's boss Possibly. But this is not just a "McLeish should not be Villa Manager" thread. Fans are free to discuss all his shortcomings and limited positive influences on our team. Just because fans have accepted that he is the manager and there's bugger all we can do about it doesn't mean we have to like it and if he messes up he should still be criticised. We also haven't played a game in 10 days so he's had limited opportunity to piss off anyone of late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 At least this thread is slowing down now, what are we averaging 3-4 pages a day Perhaps one or two are coming to terms with who's boss I would say that 3-4 pages per day 7 months into the season without a game having been played for 10 days is quite high. If the manager was any use there probably wouldn't be a thread dedicated to him and if there was it wouldn't be well over 600 pages long with a high proportion of negative comments directed towards him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briggaman Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Will this page reach 1,000 before the end of the season? I doubt it, yet I live in hope... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 At least this thread is slowing down now, what are we averaging 3-4 pages a day Perhaps one or two are coming to terms with who's boss Or maybe this thread is slow because we haven't played for ages? How come Mark you constantly mention what you saw as gutless performances under Houllier yet you've been silent about McLeish? I'm not going to contest that there were some gutless games under Houllier but at least admit that McLeish has been just as bad. Have you ever glanced down at his sig.?What's that got to do with anything?Oh, sorry, nothing. The fact that Mark is pointing out in his sig that McLeish is as useless Houliier was obviously has nothing at all to do with a question about why he doesn't criticise McLeish the way he does Houllier! I take it you don't read Mark's post. Even he himself admits he criticised Houllier a lot more.You may not have read his post. He's saying they are equally poor but he's realised there's a deeper problem with the board of which they both Houllier and McLeish are symptoms. However, this discussion really really really should close. The point I was making (which you seem to have missed) is that his criticism of Houllier was far more frequent and fiery than his criticism of McLeish, despite the fact that he seems them as both very bad managers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted March 22, 2012 Moderator Share Posted March 22, 2012 At least this thread is slowing down now, what are we averaging 3-4 pages a day Perhaps one or two are coming to terms with who's boss Coming to terms with???? What on earth are you on about. It isn't a case of coming to terms with it, despite what some claim the objections to McLeish aren't about where he came from which this comment again implies. Some might be against him because of his time across the city but the vast majority of those critical are so for far better reasons than that as I think you well know because its been explained time and time again. Despite the lack of games this thread continues to tick over but obviously it is slower than when we are playing games. If the thread is a little more quiet it is a reflection of nothing more than the fact we aren't playing games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Lerwill Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 At least this thread is slowing down now, what are we averaging 3-4 pages a day Perhaps one or two are coming to terms with who's boss Coming to terms with???? What on earth are you on about. It isn't a case of coming to terms with it, despite what some claim the objections to McLeish aren't about where he came from which this comment again implies. ... Yes, no-one is changing their views, surely? If they've stated their views, there's little point in putting up the same thing over and over again. Whilst the chances of Villa being relegated are virtually nil, one matter that might stimulate more comment is that Blackburn (and Perhaps QPR) are creeping up a bit on Villa. So with some pretty stiff fixtures coming up for Villa, how do we feel about Villa finishing in 17th place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mammoth10 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 At least this thread is slowing down now, what are we averaging 3-4 pages a day Perhaps one or two are coming to terms with who's boss Coming to terms with???? What on earth are you on about. It isn't a case of coming to terms with it, despite what some claim the objections to McLeish aren't about where he came from which this comment again implies. Some might be against him because of his time across the city but the vast majority of those critical are so for far better reasons than that as I think you well know because its been explained time and time again. Despite the lack of games this thread continues to tick over but obviously it is slower than when we are playing games. If the thread is a little more quiet it is a reflection of nothing more than the fact we aren't playing games. How does this post from CI imply that it's all about where Mcleish came from? For someone that gets shall we say 'a little upset' when people try to put words in their mouth, this is a little rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Never come to terms with McLeish being boss. What can we do when there is such a gap between games. Maybe I'll just copy and paste my same argument every day so you'll be happy. I might ask the mods if they can add a recurring post option so I can set it daily, also a recurring post to give the same verdict on the performance after every game......sorry there will be an option of two responses, one for 95% of the games and the other for the 5% of games when the pro-McLeish crowd pop their heads out for their once in a blue moon 'I told you so' post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted March 22, 2012 Moderator Share Posted March 22, 2012 At least this thread is slowing down now, what are we averaging 3-4 pages a day Perhaps one or two are coming to terms with who's boss Coming to terms with???? What on earth are you on about. It isn't a case of coming to terms with it, despite what some claim the objections to McLeish aren't about where he came from which this comment again implies. Some might be against him because of his time across the city but the vast majority of those critical are so for far better reasons than that as I think you well know because its been explained time and time again. Despite the lack of games this thread continues to tick over but obviously it is slower than when we are playing games. If the thread is a little more quiet it is a reflection of nothing more than the fact we aren't playing games. How does this post from CI imply that it's all about where Mcleish came from? For someone that gets shall we say 'a little upset' when people try to put words in their mouth, this is a little rich. "Coming to terms with" suggests that the objections to McLeish were something people would get over, that they were an emotive reaction rather than something based on what they were actually seeing. I find it hard to think of anything that could cause such an emotive reaction other than the fact he used to manage Birmingham. I'm not sure what else there is to "come to terms" with as people aren't likely to come to terms with his approach to the game, his style of play or the lack of wins. I did though say "implies" because obviously I don't know for certain what CI meant by it so no its not a little rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overdubber Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Yes, like many here my biggest gripe is not that he came from the sty, rather the negative or uninspiring footballing aproach taken to so many of his games in charge of most or many of the teams he has lead. Was actually rather uprised that he went to the blues at all, and never did they deserve him, but the boring football on display may be intended to win and consolidate position, but it just does not work. Lacks either experience or a plan. Don`t know what we have done to deserve this dire football at the mo..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelle Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I hope he leaves in the summer but I doubt he will. And as I think he'll stay for next season too I wonder what it will take for him to win over a majority of the fans. "Nothing, cause he's just shite and can't do anything good so he can't win us over.", is probably what most thinks now. But if we play decent football next season, finish 7th or 8th and a decent cup run, would some re think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Well I guess what I meant was, I like many was appauled by the appointment initially and the early signs were shocking - crap football, crap signings such as Jenas, what appeared to be low team morale. However, in any new job, it can take someone 6-12 months to find their feet, and now you could argue we are seeing the first green shoots appear ? We are planning for next season, the kids are getting great exposure, all little signs that more and more fans can see and take the positives from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I hope he leaves in the summer but I doubt he will. And as I think he'll stay for next season too I wonder what it will take for him to win over a majority of the fans. "Nothing, cause he's just shite and can't do anything good so he can't win us over.", is probably what most thinks now. But if we play decent football next season, finish 7th or 8th and a decent cup run, would some re think?The problem s that we know that won't happen, yes he has won a cup before he's never played decent football and can you see us ever getting 7th or 8th under his tactics or management style. That is why so many of us want him out as there doesn't seem to be any hope. that glimmer of hope we all try to hang onto that things will get better under other managers, at the start of the season that this could be the season that we upset the odds somehow, that we might win a cup or get a champions league place.....we have none of this under McLeish. It seems, like me, that a lot of fans can't see that glimmer, don't have those claret tinted glasses, we just see what is going to happen......ever game I go into now I'm either really nervous or defeatist before it even starts. I've always been...if we attack them like this then maybe we can win or we are at home, we are strong, we have a good chance...or our counter attacking play means we have a chance of winning...I have none of those feelings under McLeish, its always fearful and he generally proves it right....so hoping for a better season next then yes but he won't change and thus the chances of us achieving what you say is so slim that to change our minds about him won't happen because that scenario won't most likely happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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