R.Bear Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 6 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Think of it like MON at Villa. Did MON do a good job and get good results at villa? Absolutely. It’s undeniable. Would we have got top 4 if we had someone better? Absolutely. Not to go off topic but I seriously doubt that. In 2008-09 we were riding our luck until the new year. Around Christmas in particular we had loads of fortunate goals and games we took 3 points from that we didnt deserve. It was inevitable that we would fall at some point. No chance we were better than Arsenal that year. We would never have finished top 4 under that fraud I agree but I'm not convinced we would have under anyone. We just werent quite a top 4 team and it was locked in in those days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Bear Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 3 minutes ago, Tomaszk said: I have an agenda that he's a terrible, terrible manager who can't judge a player's ability. Any more mental gymnastics to defend him? Nah, let's not. You think he's in the OK to brilliant range of management and I think he's abysmal. Terrible. Shocking. He will never get another management job after England. He'll go upstairs in the FA and continue his yes-manning. I'm trying to be reasonable here but you're not making it easy. I dont need mental gymnastics to defend him. His results and his demeanour off the pitch do it for me. He was close to winning two consecutive tournaments. That's as good as it gets for England. Saying he's "abysmal, terrible and shocking" is your opinion but 99.9% of the football world would not only say you're wrong, they would you're insane for thinking it. But let's be honest, you dont believe that. Southgate would walk into a Premier League job when he leaves England. You're deluded beyond belief if you think otherwise. Even if England bombed out in the group stage at the World Cup he would still be at the top of the shortlist for any vacancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 3 minutes ago, R.Bear said: Southgate would walk into a Premier League job when he leaves England. You're deluded beyond belief if you think otherwise. Even if England bombed out in the group stage at the World Cup he would still be at the top of the shortlist for any vacancy. Woah! We shall see. He will tank. As I said before after he left Middlesbrough, he didn't want any other management job. Be surprised if he goes back to club management when a cushy nothing role will be offered to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 22 minutes ago, R.Bear said: I'm trying to be reasonable here but you're not making it easy. I dont need mental gymnastics to defend him. His results and his demeanour off the pitch do it for me. He was close to winning two consecutive tournaments. That's as good as it gets for England. Saying he's "abysmal, terrible and shocking" is your opinion but 99.9% of the football world would not only say you're wrong, they would you're insane for thinking it. But let's be honest, you dont believe that. Southgate would walk into a Premier League job when he leaves England. You're deluded beyond belief if you think otherwise. Even if England bombed out in the group stage at the World Cup he would still be at the top of the shortlist for any vacancy. Only from bum licking the FA. I asked earlier, but you didn't reply, would you really have him as Villa manager? If he did get a Prem Job, it would be a bottom half team, an it would be an awful appointment with some of the worst football in the Prem. As for his demeanour, it's awful, he talks like he's some kind of football physiologist, "Rice is a great human being, who understands life in general which helps on the football field". What the **** is he going on about. He definately talks for the FA not the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 38 minutes ago, R.Bear said: I'm trying to be reasonable here but you're not making it easy. I dont need mental gymnastics to defend him. His results and his demeanour off the pitch do it for me. He was close to winning two consecutive tournaments. That's as good as it gets for England. Saying he's "abysmal, terrible and shocking" is your opinion but 99.9% of the football world would not only say you're wrong, they would you're insane for thinking it. But let's be honest, you dont believe that. Southgate would walk into a Premier League job when he leaves England. You're deluded beyond belief if you think otherwise. Even if England bombed out in the group stage at the World Cup he would still be at the top of the shortlist for any vacancy. It is... but only the 2-0 win against Germany was "a good result". Against basically every other half decent side we played against, we struggled through (Colombia in the World Cup, Denmark at the Euros) or lost to (Croatia and Belgium (twice) at the World Cup, Italy at the Euros). The normal time victories we achieved in those two tournaments were against Tunisia, Panama, Sweden, Croatia, Czech Republic, Germany and Ukraine. Croatia and Czech Rep not bad sides, but with home advantage? They should be victories at all day long. He's basically done completely OK, but nothing to inspire confidence that England are on the right track generally. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Bear Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 8 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: I asked earlier, but you didn't reply, would you really have him as Villa manager? No I wouldn't. I don't think he'll be a success at club level. I just know he could easily get a PL job if he wanted one. Southgate is contracted until 2024, bar a catastrophe in one of the next two tournaments, I think he has the job as long as he wants it. He is getting results, the media and fans like him and he doesnt cost much. A wet dream for the FA. That said, the minimum expected of him at the World Cup will be the semi-final. It's so hard to give a target for tournaments because anything can happen. A red card here, a bad decision there can change everything. Had England lost that shootout to Colombia then it would have been just another lacklustre early England exit from a tournament. Fine margins. The league table may not lie but tournament football certainly can. But as I said, anything less than a semi-final would be very underwhelming. Even a semi would leave certain fans disappointed. It all depends on who they play and how they go out, if they dont win it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 2 minutes ago, R.Bear said: No I wouldn't. I don't think he'll be a success at club level. I just know he could easily get a PL job if he wanted one. Southgate is contracted until 2024, bar a catastrophe in one of the next two tournaments, I think he has the job as long as he wants it. He is getting results, the media and fans like him and he doesnt cost much. A wet dream for the FA. That said, the minimum expected of him at the World Cup will be the semi-final. It's so hard to give a target for tournaments because anything can happen. A red card here, a bad decision there can change everything. Had England lost that shootout to Colombia then it would have been just another lacklustre early England exit from a tournament. Fine margins. The league table may not lie but tournament football certainly can. But as I said, anything less than a semi-final would be very underwhelming. Even a semi would leave certain fans disappointed. It all depends on who they play and how they go out, if they dont win it. He'll be gone soon then, cause there is no way we will beat a Argentina, Brazil, Spain, France. We was lucky to be up against the shite in the Euros including a old Germany team, still a struggle though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 (edited) Steve Cook when asked about how they're going to celebrate promotion said " We're going full Jack Grealish! " Lol Edited May 29, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 3 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Steve Cooper when asked about how they're going to celebrate promotion said " We're going full Jack Grealish! " Lol Everybody knows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 4 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Everybody knows https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/12623940/steve-cook-were-going-full-jack-grealish-tonight Steve Cook sorry not Cooper lol. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Bear Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 22 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: We was lucky to be up against the shite in the Euros including a old Germany team Old? Ages of their starting XI vs England. Neuer 35 Ginter 27 Hummels 32 Rudiger 28 Kimmich 26 Goretzka 26 Kroos 31 Gosens 26 Havertz 22 Muller 31 Werner 26 Subs Gnabry 25 Can 27 Sane 25 Musiala 18 I do enjoy the narrative that England only played shite teams in both tournaments though. Despite both featuring the best teams in the World/Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 9 minutes ago, R.Bear said: Old? Ages of their starting XI vs England. Neuer 35 Ginter 27 Hummels 32 Rudiger 28 Kimmich 26 Goretzka 26 Kroos 31 Gosens 26 Havertz 22 Muller 31 Werner 26 Subs Gnabry 25 Can 27 Sane 25 Musiala 18 I do enjoy the narrative that England only played shite teams in both tournaments though. Despite both featuring the best teams in the World/Europe. Still a poor Germany team, an yet again we were lucky with Muller missing a sitter. We will see how we do in Qatar I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 1 minute ago, foreveryoung said: Still a poor Germany team, an yet again we were lucky with Muller missing a sitter. We will see how we do in Qatar I guess. You can't see it on paper but low had already announced he was going and it was for good reason, mentally that team was tired and not performing Was still a good game and performance by England though 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 3 hours ago, R.Bear said: Old? Ages of their starting XI vs England. Neuer 35 Ginter 27 Hummels 32 Rudiger 28 Kimmich 26 Goretzka 26 Kroos 31 Gosens 26 Havertz 22 Muller 31 Werner 26 Subs Gnabry 25 Can 27 Sane 25 Musiala 18 I do enjoy the narrative that England only played shite teams in both tournaments though. Despite both featuring the best teams in the World/Europe. Germany have been poor for a while. South Korea smashed them at the last World Cup but Southgate treated them for the first hour as if it they were world champions Thomas Muller I remember missing a great chance he would normally score at 0-0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted May 30, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted May 30, 2022 12 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: This is just obviously right. History and sport are contingent; the final finished level, and then there were penalties. Any number of things could have gone slightly differently in the shootout and the outcome would have been different. Well yes and no. If the team had been set up correctly, with intent to take the game to the opposition in the first place, England could and should have won the game in normal time quite easily. Quote I don't think it's particularly obvious whether Mancini or Southgate are 'better' or not. Clearly Mancini got slightly more decisions right on the night last summer; on the other hand England are going to the World Cup and Italy aren't. Italy going to the World Cup has zero to do with what happened last summer. How many key, experienced, savvy Italian players retired after that tournament? Quote Would I trade our presence at this World Cup for having won a tournament last summer? Of course, absolutely. But you have to weigh up both if you're going to compare the managers. I think this is a stretch for the reasons I stated above. Ask yourself, if Villa were in a major final, who would you want setting us up tactically and making team selections? I imagine you probably wouldn't have any hesitation saying Mancini (even if Platt is his assistant ) Quote Dragging this back to Jack Grealish, Southgate's reasons not to pick him in the first place were annoying, because he didn't say 'I don't want to because I don't think he's ready'. Honesty would have been less annoying. But picking him before he was confident Jack was ready wouldn't have been right either. Hamada hamada? He should have picked him to start. Full stop. I think thats what you're saying, but in a really weird way lol! Quote Villa fans obviously don't want to hear that playing Champions League games and training with City players - even as a bit-part player - is considered more valuable than tearing up the league as the main man in a midtable side, but that's too **** bad, because that's what everyone in the England set-up thinks, so. And that's wrong, shit, and not how it should be. And that's why folks are irritated/annoyed/hate Southgate. Its jobs for the boys, men in blazers, boring shit, old boy FA wet dream stuff. HV, I respect that you try and give a balanced view of Southgate, but it's just not football IMO. Football IS for the mavericks - the anti-heroes and the underdogs. It's meant for the kids from the favelas of South America and the latch key kids from the estates of Newcastle and every other working class community of England and Europe. Southgate isn't any of that, which is why his football is lame, his persona is dull and ultimately a lot of us do not want his soulless, corporate, pragmatic approach to managing the national team to succeed. Sorry. I'd rather lose with Gazza and Venables in the Semi than get to the final and produce insipid, lifeless dull draws only to lose inevitably on penalties because he hasn't the balls to send up his best players to take one. To think that Southgate is mentioned in the same breath as Sir Alf Ramsay, Sir Bobby Robson or even Terry Venables is a f**** joke IMO. He's a Bisa Homes Leagues manager compared to them, who had a great playing career and found himself in the right place at the right time - and knew how to say yes, a lot. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted May 30, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted May 30, 2022 The perfect excuses for the Qatar debacle of a world cup are already written. Mid-season, too hot etc. It won't count so Garth will be with us until 2024/6 <Shudder> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakotaVilla Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 Southgate is a wonderful man who deserves huge credit for creating such a positive culture with England but he is a god awful overly defensive minded football tactician. If he was any good one of the premiership teams would have already hired him. If he does get a job after England it will be at a Norwich or a Fulham - that’s basically his level. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 30, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted May 30, 2022 12 hours ago, R.Bear said: Not to go off topic but I seriously doubt that. In 2008-09 we were riding our luck until the new year. Around Christmas in particular we had loads of fortunate goals and games we took 3 points from that we didnt deserve. It was inevitable that we would fall at some point. No chance we were better than Arsenal that year. We would never have finished top 4 under that fraud I agree but I'm not convinced we would have under anyone. We just werent quite a top 4 team and it was locked in in those days. If we hadn't collaped in March we'd have got top 4. We were favourites. A better manager who rotated better and made a couple of more astute signings rather than people like Harewood would have got us over the line. But it's beside the point. The point is just because someone has done well, doesn't mean that they've got the best out of the players. Saying a better manager could have done more doesn't discredit the current manager. Has Southgate done a good job? Yes. Has he got the best out of this squad? No, not in my opinion. Would a better manager have won the Euros? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 Southgate would be a great DOF. The actual managing of a game is by far his worst asset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MNVillan Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 2 hours ago, a m ole said: Southgate would be a great DOF. The actual managing of a game is by far his worst asset. His nose isn’t a great asset. He’s a walking plague mask Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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