The RJW63 Official Jack Grealish Appreciation Thread

[HanoiVillan]

3 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

Unfortunately you got neither. 

On the contrary, I've seen England win a lot of football matches, including knockout matches. I haven't seen us win a final yet, but I've seen more and better victories in the last few years than I did for a long time before that.

[Mic09]

1 minute ago, HanoiVillan said:

On the contrary, I've seen England win a lot of football matches, including knockout matches. I haven't seen us win a final yet, but I've seen more and better victories in the last few years than I did for a long time before that.

Take away the win against Germany and Denmark (granted, good wins) have you seen anything more than you've seen in previous years? 

[Vancvillan]

So, Jack Grealish....

[HanoiVillan]

1 minute ago, Mic09 said:

Take away the win against Germany and Denmark (granted, good wins) have you seen anything more than you've seen in previous years? 

You can't say 'take away two of the main examples of the thing you're talking about, and have you *really* seen the thing you're talking about'!

[Mic09]

1 minute ago, HanoiVillan said:

You can't say 'take away two of the main examples of the thing you're talking about, and have you *really* seen the thing you're talking about'!

No, my problem is that they are the "only" good examples.

Like many, I rate the English generation of today higher than any other. So my expectations are higher than losing to Croatia. Euros (after a favourable draw) have been a success. But, I wouldn't say anything special has been achieved, and i wouldn't put England as the next world cup top 3 favourites.

 

[foreveryoung]

7 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

On the contrary, I've seen England win a lot of football matches, including knockout matches. I haven't seen us win a final yet, but I've seen more and better victories in the last few years than I did for a long time before that.

The Scotland draw, was the epitome of Southgate football. He didn't have the bottle to go out and win it. They are so far off our team, but we could only manage a draw, poor very poor.

[HanoiVillan]

2 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

No, my problem is that they are the "only" good examples.

Like many, I rate the English generation of today higher than any other. So my expectations are higher than losing to Croatia. Euros (after a favourable draw) have been a success. But, I wouldn't say anything special has been achieved, and i wouldn't put England as the next world cup top 3 favourites.

 

This is the final thing I'm going to say about this, because we're off topic and I can't find ways to drag it back to Jack Grealish at this point:

From the past two major international tournaments, we have only 'missed' one potential knockout game. That's better than every single other country in world football, and that's all the 'example' of England playing in and winning knockout games that I need.

[jim]

1 hour ago, sidcow said:

With the standard of players he's had at his disposal he should be unquestionably the most successful England manager of all time.  But unfortunately he's just a numpty being carried by an incredibly talented set of players. 

This team isn’t a patch on the golden generation. How did they do with one of the best managers in the world? 

[Stevo985]

1 minute ago, jim said:

This team isn’t a patch on the golden generation. How did they do with one of the best managers in the world? 

This squad is far better than the golden generation. 
 

Golden generation had a better defence. But midfield and attack, this generation is far better

[MrBlack]

3 hours ago, R.Bear said:

England had been dogshit for years with some embarrassing and humiliating tournament exists. Southgate comes in, makes the team likeable, something that seemed impossible in years gone by, gets the team 20 minutes from a World Cup final and a penalty shootout away from a European Championship. Something that even the most optimistic England fan wouldn’t have even dreamed of before he came in.

Yet some bitter Villa fans don’t like it because he didn’t play Jack Grealish enough. Something they wouldn’t have given a shit about had he played for anyone else. Hilarious.

I'll see if I still feel the same way after the next tournament now my inherent bias towards Grealish has gone, but I'm thinking my view of the football we play preventing us from actually winning will remain.

He bottled the final against Italy. Simple as that. Played the percentages to get us there which I can live with, but that final was an absolute bottle job.

[MrBlack]

53 minutes ago, Vancvillan said:

So, Jack Grealish....

I got this

... likes having it large.

[R.Bear]

2 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

Do you think we played well at the Euros? Yes, the one where we got to a penalty shootout to win it.

How has he made the team likeable? What's he done the personalities of the squad?

For the most part, yes. Did what they needed to get through the group. Convincingly beat Germany, a game that could so easily have got the better of them. Brushed aside Ukraine. Came from behind against Denmark who had been riding the crest of a wave. Going 1-0 down at home in a semi-final could easily have made the team bottle it and fade away. They came back and won. In the final they were second best, no doubt but that's why Italy won, they were the best side in the tournament. Almost never does any team smash every their way to glory in international tournaments. They always have a very tight game here or a penalty shootout there. Because England didnt thrash everyone like Ukraine they played poorly? That seems to be what you're saying.

Yes he made the team likable, don't you keep up? During the "Golden Generation" there were fans almost waiting for them to lose because some of the players were hated or not performing. Home games would get boos and players given dogs abuse for poor performances. Remember after the 0-0 versus Algeria when Rooney mouthed off on camera to the booing fans? It was them vs the fans not the oppo. Underachieving prima donnas was their reputation. Under Southgate, the whole nation was really behind them, Football's coming home, club rivalries seemed to be non existent. This still remains the case. Southgate managed to make England good and a source of pride to the country again. Two things that seemed impossible after the Iceland game.

[R.Bear]

49 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Golden generation had a better defence. But midfield and attack, this generation is far better

Absolute nonsense. The Golden Generation had a midfield of Beckham, Lampard, Gerrard and Scholes. 

The midfield that started the Euro 2020 final was Declan Rice, Kalvin Phillips and Mason Mount.

[Mark Albrighton]

I think the “golden generation” were probably better than the current lot. Player for player, anyway.

But the golden boys weren’t as good as their contemporary opposition.

This generation are probably better than their contemporary opposition.

Generally speaking.

[Tomaszk]

10 minutes ago, R.Bear said:

 Because England didnt thrash everyone like Ukraine they played poorly? That seems to be what you're saying.

You can phrase it however you like to make you feel better. When you have the players we do, you'll beat most sides comfortably if you put in a decent performance. We didn't even do that.

Muller sitter in Germany game, Sterling dive to get a pen and beat Denmark, plenty fell our way etc etc...

Anyway, disagree there. You think we played OK, I think we were poor. (As we nearly always are under Southgate IMO)

10 minutes ago, R.Bear said:

Yes he made the team likable, don't you keep up? 

Nothing to do with the underperforming manager I'm afraid. Just different characters around.

Maguire and Stones being nicer chaps than Ferdinand and Terry.

Phillips and Rice being friendlier than Scholes and Gerrard.

Harry Kane being more chilled out than Wayne Rooney.

That's why the squad is more likeable. Because there's loads less dickheads in there. There's not some brilliant players who should be there but don't on personality. Grealish was probably the only one you could argue to be honest, but the England fans loved him more than anyone else at the Euros.

He's done nothing that wouldn't have happened anyway except hold England, and this incredible selection of players, back with defensive/overly safe football.

[Stevo985]

59 minutes ago, R.Bear said:

Absolute nonsense. The Golden Generation had a midfield of Beckham, Lampard, Gerrard and Scholes. 

The midfield that started the Euro 2020 final was Declan Rice, Kalvin Phillips and Mason Mount.

First XI the golden generation might steal it. But as a squad? This generation wins hands down. 

And you need a squad to win tournaments. It’s one of Southgate’s best attributes, he’s shown that he actually can use his squad effectively. 
 

The fact we started with Rice Phillips and Mount is exactly why Southgate holds us back. 
 

We have midfielders/attackers like Sterling, Sancho, Foden, Grealish, Kane, Saka, Rashford, Bellingham, Abraham, Bowen. Then you can add Trent, Chilwell and Reece James, who are basically attackers.

And people waiting in the wings like Ward Prowse, Calvert Lewin, Watkins, Maddison, Gallagher etc 

That kind of depth is insane. The Golden Generation were absolutely nowhere near that strong. 
 

They had a good first XI, and a better defence. But this generation could field an XI on par and had the squad depth to elevate it. 
 

This generation is our best chance of winning something for 20 years. And unfortunately some people think that Southgate, whilst he’s done a good job, isn’t good enough to get us over the line

[R.Bear]

48 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

You think we played OK, I think we were poor.

So we were poor but were a penalty shootout away from winning the tournament? Right ok.

And you questioned how the team had become likeable but now agree that it has? 

But of course don't give the manager any credit. It would have happened anyway. So basically England havent been good despite their all-time great results and tournament record and the team becoming likable and improvements in other areas are nothing to do with the manager. Maybe I'm cynical but I'm sensing an agenda here. Any more mental gymnastics to belittle him?

[R.Bear]

4 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

The fact we started with Rice Phillips and Mount is exactly why Southgate holds us back. 
 

We have midfielders/attackers like Sterling, Sancho, Foden, Grealish, Kane, Saka, Rashford, Bellingham, Abraham, Bowen. Then you can add Trent, Chilwell and Reece James, who are basically attackers.

The main criticism of the Golden Generation, other than individuals not performing like they did for their clubs, was that the best players were shoehorned into the side rather than a fluid team with a game plan.

Now you're criticising Southgate for doing the exact opposite. As he says himself, "some people want me start 15 players". Picking the best players works on FIFA, it doesnt necessarily in real life. Ultimately, all that matters are the results and they have been superb.

[Stevo985]

5 minutes ago, R.Bear said:

The main criticism of the Golden Generation, other than individuals not performing like they did for their clubs, was that the best players were shoehorned into the side rather than a fluid team with a game plan.

Now you're criticising Southgate for doing the exact opposite. As he says himself, "some people want me start 15 players". Picking the best players works on FIFA, it doesnt necessarily in real life. Ultimately, all that matters are the results and they have been superb.

I’m not criticising Southgate for doing that. I’m criticising Southgate for playing an overly defensive system when we have an abundance of attacking talent. 
 

It’s fine being cautious, but he is overly cautious. It’s served us well up to a point. 
 

The results have been excellent. But under a better manager we’d have an International trophy. 
 

Think of it like MON at Villa. Did MON do a good job and get good results at villa? Absolutely. It’s undeniable. 
 

Would we have got top 4 if we had someone better? Absolutely. 
 

That’s all anyone is saying. Southgate has done a great job. But we have a squad now who are capable of winning a trophy. The Euros showed that. And the squad is getting better. The manager MIGHT be the reason we don’t win that trophy 

[Tomaszk]

3 minutes ago, R.Bear said:

So we were poor but were a penalty shootout away from winning the tournament? Right ok.

Correct. We underperformed nearly every game.

Home advantage, the teams we ended up playing against, it was an open goal. If you think we played well, that's OK.

3 minutes ago, R.Bear said:

And you questioned how the team had become likeable but now agree that it has? 

No. I asked what Southgate had done. Nothing was the answer.

53 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

He's done nothing that wouldn't have happened anyway except hold England, and this incredible selection of players, back with defensive/overly safe football.

3 minutes ago, R.Bear said:

Maybe I'm cynical but I'm sensing an agenda here. Any more mental gymnastics to belittle him?

I have an agenda that he's a terrible, terrible manager who can't judge a player's ability.

Any more mental gymnastics to defend him? Nah, let's not. You think he's in the OK to brilliant range of management and I think he's abysmal. Terrible. Shocking.

He will never get another management job after England. He'll go upstairs in the FA and continue his yes-manning.