withes_shin Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 10 minutes ago, Ingers said: Some Golden Lions, and Old v New lion comparisons, side by side for you all......especially @fightoffyour and @Jas10 ! Then, compared to claret lion on blue, and even some no gold options.... I still think the old Lion looks very 'slabby' or flat/tubby (almost dragon-esque) next to the new one (the 'ornamental' old lion is beyond my skills in illustrator). As a team who are the original Claret n Blue team, I feel we need as much claret and blue in the badge as possible - or we look very much like claret n gold or that 'bubbles' are involved as another poster said. Curved top also helps get the font slightly bigger for the name to stand out....maybe Mr Heck knows what he's, no wait, text at the top..... To repeat whats been said many times, its not that difficult, to get to here - if Mr Hecks offering is from a professional design agency, they are taking him for a ride.... Top right or bottom right for me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 (edited) Once again a fan mockup is far superior, and more stand out, to something commissioned by the club but people will line up to say we just don't understand and the new one leaked and on the way this summer will be better equipped to make us huge revenue streams or some other spiel along these lines. Edited April 26 by Captain_Townsend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teale's 'tache Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 15 minutes ago, Ingers said: Some Golden Lions, and Old v New lion comparisons, side by side for you all......especially @fightoffyour and @Jas10 ! Then, compared to claret lion on blue, and even some no gold options.... I still think the old Lion looks very 'slabby' or flat/tubby (almost dragon-esque) next to the new one (the 'ornamental' old lion is beyond my skills in illustrator). As a team who are the original Claret n Blue team, I feel we need as much claret and blue in the badge as possible - or we look very much like claret n gold or that 'bubbles' are involved as another poster said. Curved top also helps get the font slightly bigger for the name to stand out....maybe Mr Heck knows what he's, no wait, text at the top..... To repeat whats been said many times, its not that difficult, to get to here - if Mr Hecks offering is from a professional design agency, they are taking him for a ride.... I think it's important to note that we don't know what restrictions are in place for the designers of the 'Heck crest', if as I believe, that crest is a brand evolution, rather than the revolution we all hoped for, then things like changing the lion, colours, removing the star may not have been an option for them, because it would kill too much of the current branding in place. They may have been extremely limited in what they could actually change. So as nice as it is to put together all of these designs, and I've done plenty too, we aren't working to the same restrictions, the same briefs, as the actual designers. As an example, you've dropped the star from your designs, and I agree that it probably shouldn't be there, but all of the surveys the fans have done say it has to be on there, the same with the 1874, and the same with using the full name. I'm no fan of the Heck crest, but as a designer, I do get a bit protective over some of the criticism being dished out over some of these crests, because we don't know the brief that has been set, it doesn't matter how good a design agency is, if you put too many restrictions in place there's only so many places they can go. As an example I also think that Dragon Rouge, the company that designed this season's roundel, would have done a much better job with fewer restrictions put in place, it feels like part of the reason they switched the direction of the lion is that it was one of the few things they could do. Their brief from the fan surveys was basically 'design by numbers', with little scope for creativity. We paid a lot of money to them and then practically designed the thing ourselves, what a waste of money and creative talent. Sorry, I hope this doesn't feel like I'm having a go, it's not meant in that way, I'm enjoying seeing your designs so please do keep producing them, I just feel the need to stand up for fellow designers who may be getting unfair criticism. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Made In Aston Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ingers said: Don't show this to Heck as we all know that he loves to have multiple crests in play at the same time. He will think it's countdown and ask you for 3 from the top, 2 from the middle and 4 from the bottom. Edited April 26 by Made In Aston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 It’s all because some mad chairman wanted to change the club colours of Cardiff, clubs now have to engage and design by committee. I get certain things should be consulted with fans but I feel that in this instance it should have been done after the professionals had produced their designs without restrictions. We all have different opinions and are of different eras. Round badge is nostalgic to some whereas others it’s just that - a round badge with no sentimental attachments. Without fan engagement we could’ve ended up with something really special. Now we have a compromise and that will sadly always be the case. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalfTimePost Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 1 hour ago, Ingers said: Some Golden Lions, and Old v New lion comparisons, side by side for you all......especially @fightoffyour and @Jas10 ! Then, compared to claret lion on blue, and even some no gold options.... I still think the old Lion looks very 'slabby' or flat/tubby (almost dragon-esque) next to the new one (the 'ornamental' old lion is beyond my skills in illustrator). As a team who are the original Claret n Blue team, I feel we need as much claret and blue in the badge as possible - or we look very much like claret n gold or that 'bubbles' are involved as another poster said. Curved top also helps get the font slightly bigger for the name to stand out....maybe Mr Heck knows what he's, no wait, text at the top..... To repeat whats been said many times, its not that difficult, to get to here - if Mr Hecks offering is from a professional design agency, they are taking him for a ride.... Shown smaller like this (as it would be on socials, web and Apps/League tables), it shows how much more distinctive the new lion is in the smaller formats. The old one looks like a blob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted April 26 Author VT Supporter Share Posted April 26 1 hour ago, CarryOnVilla said: Seeing both lions together, makes think I like the newer one more, it just scales better… There's that and also it just looks better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 41 minutes ago, thabucks said: Without fan engagement we could’ve ended up with something really special. Or really shit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 (edited) 22 minutes ago, nick76 said: Or really shit! Doubt it. There track record is impressive when given room. We gave them a box Edited April 26 by thabucks 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayls Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 I’m confused by what is what now… which one is it? Or which one do we suspect it will be? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 1 minute ago, thabucks said: Doubt it. Their track record is impressive when given room. We have them box. Track records are only impressive until they are not. We aren’t any normal business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 4 minutes ago, nick76 said: Track records are only impressive until they are not. We aren’t any normal business. Well we will never know … Dragon Rogue are considered the go to agency … Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejs1111 Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 Earlier poster either here or in another thread mentioned a great point that I'd love to see us implement. If AVFC secure UCL wouldn't we be allowed to have the Star above the badge since we've won it before? That would help solve some of the design issues with trying to cram it into our shield/badge etc etc. I'd like to see that frankly. Could that be a reason for the delay in the new badge release? Seeing if we secure UCL? Food for thought... UTV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted April 26 Moderator Share Posted April 26 Dragon Rouge have got an excellent reputation with some big organisations - they did PSG for example. I don't think they'll have found the controls on this project any more restrictive than on most things they do - just from more directions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 (edited) 2 hours ago, Ingers said: Some Golden Lions, and Old v New lion comparisons, side by side for you all......especially @fightoffyour and @Jas10 ! Then, compared to claret lion on blue, and even some no gold options.... I still think the old Lion looks very 'slabby' or flat/tubby (almost dragon-esque) next to the new one (the 'ornamental' old lion is beyond my skills in illustrator). As a team who are the original Claret n Blue team, I feel we need as much claret and blue in the badge as possible - or we look very much like claret n gold or that 'bubbles' are involved as another poster said. Curved top also helps get the font slightly bigger for the name to stand out....maybe Mr Heck knows what he's, no wait, text at the top..... To repeat whats been said many times, its not that difficult, to get to here - if Mr Hecks offering is from a professional design agency, they are taking him for a ride.... Brilliant, thank you… you make it look so easy… wish the club would see sense… Still can’t believe they are choosing to stick with pale blue and yellow… in ANY form… Every single one of those is better than that drop shadowed abomination! Welcome btw! Edited April 26 by Jas10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talldarkandransome Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 7 hours ago, nick76 said: Glad you are a graphic designer and not an accountant. Asston Veella 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingers Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 @CarryOnVilla - apologies, I didn't reply yesterday - had to go to bed down here, and 'ran out of replies' - I can only post 5 times a day as I'm a newbie! To answer your question - I'd pitch these design to the Villa, - as I think they fit the bill and represent Villa for shirt, media, merchandising, stadium etc. I'd also pass on the blue AV diamond on claret background with gold lion, from someone on here previously - Teale's Tash I think - that is a fantastic design, unique for villa designs, has heritage with the old frontage and top of old Trinity Rd fascia vibes, fairly unique (I can only think of Monchengladbach with a diamond shape) and just stands out for Villa, looked good on kit mock up and great design - doesn't say our name, but I don't think it needs to. @Teale's 'tache - if that was your design, can you repost it please? - I can't locate it in the 240 pages of this thread. And I hear your point on designers possibly having their hands tied - which may well be the case, Id love to hear the brief they were given! Apologies if I came across too hard, when they are probably restricted to half a job, to tweak the rubbish we already have, to save costs, and potentially evolve one slow mutation at a time, but its so bad!.... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 27 minutes ago, thabucks said: Doubt it. There track record is impressive when given room. We gave them a box I've been saying this about our kits and branding for years and years. Too many restrictions, most of which are clutching to the past. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talldarkandransome Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 2 minutes ago, Ingers said: @CarryOnVilla - apologies, I didn't reply yesterday - had to go to bed down here, and 'ran out of replies' - I can only post 5 times a day as I'm a newbie! To answer your question - I'd pitch these design to the Villa, - as I think they fit the bill and represent Villa for shirt, media, merchandising, stadium etc. I'd also pass on the blue AV diamond on claret background with gold lion, from someone on here previously - Teale's Tash I think - that is a fantastic design, unique for villa designs, has heritage with the old frontage and top of old Trinity Rd fascia vibes, fairly unique (I can only think of Monchengladbach with a diamond shape) and just stands out for Villa, looked good on kit mock up and great design - doesn't say our name, but I don't think it needs to. @Teale's 'tache - if that was your design, can you repost it please? - I can't locate it in the 240 pages of this thread. And I hear your point on designers possibly having their hands tied - which may well be the case, Id love to hear the brief they were given! Apologies if I came across too hard, when they are probably restricted to half a job, to tweak the rubbish we already have, to save costs, and potentially evolve one slow mutation at a time, but its so bad!.... Summat shit that no-one likes 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 (edited) 2 hours ago, Ingers said: Some Golden Lions, and Old v New lion comparisons, side by side for you all......especially @fightoffyour and @Jas10 ! Then, compared to claret lion on blue, and even some no gold options.... I still think the old Lion looks very 'slabby' or flat/tubby (almost dragon-esque) next to the new one (the 'ornamental' old lion is beyond my skills in illustrator). As a team who are the original Claret n Blue team, I feel we need as much claret and blue in the badge as possible - or we look very much like claret n gold or that 'bubbles' are involved as another poster said. Curved top also helps get the font slightly bigger for the name to stand out....maybe Mr Heck knows what he's, no wait, text at the top..... To repeat whats been said many times, its not that difficult, to get to here - if Mr Hecks offering is from a professional design agency, they are taking him for a ride.... Actually think this is the best lion (best with dark detailing such as dark claret or even black rather than simply a darker shade of gold/yellow) and wonder how it scales down and compares: This guy has created so many good designs: Much better, good contrast: Edited April 26 by Jas10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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