VillaJay Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 10 hours ago, Villa_Vids said: The letter spacing / tracking on the Villa word vs Aston is very very poor, I can't unsee it and looks very amateur hour. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 Agree that it doesnt look great but I'm curious what a design expert would do to fix it. Use a different font where all letters have a similar size so space between letters doesn't need to change? Have the letters all spaced equally but then the lion doesn't sit in the middle of the physical space? It's the same issue we have with a circle, and the name not sitting equally around both halves of the circumference. What's the answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted April 26 Author VT Supporter Share Posted April 26 28 minutes ago, VillaJay said: The letter spacing / tracking on the Villa word vs Aston is very very poor, I can't unsee it and looks very amateur hour. I tried a similar one once, this looks worse because the letters don't align but not much you can do if you want symmetry: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teale's 'tache Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 (edited) 1 hour ago, MrBlack said: Agree that it doesnt look great but I'm curious what a design expert would do to fix it. Use a different font where all letters have a similar size so space between letters doesn't need to change? Have the letters all spaced equally but then the lion doesn't sit in the middle of the physical space? It's the same issue we have with a circle, and the name not sitting equally around both halves of the circumference. What's the answer? So, what has happened here is that the kerning (spacing between the letters) on the word 'Aston' is different to the kerning on the word 'Villa', and the reason for this is that the designer wants both words to take up the same amount of horizontal space so that the lion will sit in the center of the image. The problem is that the characters in the word 'Aston' take up a lot more horizontal space than the letters in the word 'Villa' hence the noticeable difference in the spacing. If you were to have both with the same kerning the word 'Villa' would appear much shorter and there would be a lot more space on the right hand side and so everything would look very unbalanced. Ways to solve this, you could maybe use a different font family if the brand allows, where the characters take up a more similar amount of space as you mention, you could possibly increase the kerning on both further as this can make the difference in spacing less obvious while keeping everything centered, or simply find another way to make the image balance, like maybe stacking the lion, the word Aston and the word Villa on top of each other. The name 'Aston Villa' feels like it should have a nice balance with two words of six letters, but from a graphic design point of view, it's not that easy to work with. Edit: Just noticed the tweet in question has only taken part of a complete graphic, when all the other components are added there is much more balance and the difference in spacing much less noticeable. Edited April 26 by Teale's 'tache Further context 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Teale's 'tache said: So, what has happened here is that the kerning (spacing between the letters) on the word 'Aston' is different to the kerning on the word 'Villa', and the reason for this is that the designer wants both words to take up the same amount of horizontal space so that the lion will sit in the center of the image. The problem is that the characters in the word 'Aston' take up a lot more horizontal space than the letters in the word 'Villa' hence the noticeable difference in the spacing. If you were to have both with the same kerning the word 'Villa' would appear much shorter and there would be a lot more space on the right hand side and so everything would look very unbalanced. Ways to solve this, you could maybe use a different font family if the brand allows, where the characters take up a more similar amount of space as you mention, you could possibly increase the kerning on both further as this can make the difference in spacing less obvious while keeping everything centered, or simply find another way to make the image balance, like maybe stacking the lion, the word Aston and the word Villa on top of each other. The name 'Aston Villa' feels like it should have a nice balance with two words of six letters, but from a graphic design point of view, it's not that easy to work with. How about using the “old style” capital i rather than just a single line I give the i some extra width essentially rather than overly simplified or stylised one Edited April 26 by Jas10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post nick76 Posted April 26 Popular Post Share Posted April 26 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Teale's 'tache said: The name 'Aston Villa' feels like it should have a nice balance with two words of six letters, but from a graphic design point of view, it's not that easy to work with. Glad you are a graphic designer and not an accountant. Edited April 26 by nick76 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teale's 'tache Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 1 minute ago, Jas10 said: How about using the “old style” capital i rather than just a single line I give the i some extra width essentially rather than overly simplified or stylised one That would depend on the font family, if it has that variation or not, and it might help a little, however, the horizontal space of the 'I' is never going to be close to the horizontal space of say the letter 'O' in this case, there are always going to be differences, the thing is some letter combinations just work better and the spacing is less noticeable than others. I'm not sure what the font face is we are using, or if it is a custom-made one, if it was custom you'd like to think they'd use 'Aston Villa' as a starting point and use every trick to get that to balance and then go through the rest of the characters, but then, full disclosure, I'm not a font face designer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teale's 'tache Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 Just now, nick76 said: Glad you are a graphic designer and not an accountant. Good spot! My brain is full of flu and I'm off on holiday next week so I'm not running at full capacity right now! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 If only… bar steward had everyone on strings 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 (edited) 43 minutes ago, fightoffyour said: I tried a similar one once, this looks worse because the letters don't align but not much you can do if you want symmetry: REALLY like this one… this older lion has more presence and prominence (I know many won’t/don’t agree) and is more identifiable and recognisable as “ours”… it just looks better and more iconic and powerful, classy even. The only ever problem was the lack of contrast and it’s solved here. Doesn’t looked blobby or blurred at all against a darker background and actually stands out. The problem has always been the stupid and ridiculous pale blue and yellow combination! It’s so obvious and simple! You would think even an idiot could suss that out yet… we have trademarked almost the same thing with a cheap and stupid drop shadow and overall inferior and uglier version! Unfortunately, there’s just too much text and it’s too large here - I think that’s the trickiest thing to solve. How do we get “Aston Villa” on the badge in the best way possible? Shouldn’t take up too much room yet still stand out. Edited April 26 by Jas10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 I know we’ve wasted money on shite players and managers in the past but… how much did we waste when we employed Dragon Rouge to come up with the round badge? What was the point, if we are just going to ditch everything they did? Waste of time and resources… what exactly did that cost us? A few hundred thousand? Or a mil or more? Would it be worth retaining some aspects of it, if it was a hefty investment… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted April 26 VT Supporter Share Posted April 26 So is this the first official outing for AUPenis50? Other than the thing at the ground that once before a game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 26 minutes ago, Jas10 said: If only… bar steward had everyone on strings Given all the leaks that's pretty much what our new crest will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 20 minutes ago, villa89 said: Given all the leaks that's pretty much what our new crest will be. The guy who mocked it up let everyone know it was fake and that he got a good laugh out of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
est1874 Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 2 hours ago, VillaJay said: The letter spacing / tracking on the Villa word vs Aston is very very poor, I can't unsee it and looks very amateur hour. It's what has to be done if you want symmetry. Villa fans often talk about how our name is beautifully symmetrical, but it's not - only conceptually. Five letters in each word and it begins with A and end with A, but in practice it's completely assymetrical. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one_ian_taylor Posted April 26 VT Supporter Share Posted April 26 1 hour ago, fightoffyour said: I tried a similar one once, this looks worse because the letters don't align but not much you can do if you want symmetry: I'd prefer claret lion on blue, but given I've never really liked gold lion on claret, this is actually very nice, great border 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 1 hour ago, Jas10 said: The guy who mocked it up let everyone know it was fake and that he got a good laugh out of it Yes but we know from the trademarks filed and what has been leaked out of Fans Group meetings that its very close to the actual crest. Unless of course there is a complete U Turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingers Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 Some Golden Lions, and Old v New lion comparisons, side by side for you all......especially @fightoffyour and @Jas10 ! Then, compared to claret lion on blue, and even some no gold options.... I still think the old Lion looks very 'slabby' or flat/tubby (almost dragon-esque) next to the new one (the 'ornamental' old lion is beyond my skills in illustrator). As a team who are the original Claret n Blue team, I feel we need as much claret and blue in the badge as possible - or we look very much like claret n gold or that 'bubbles' are involved as another poster said. Curved top also helps get the font slightly bigger for the name to stand out....maybe Mr Heck knows what he's, no wait, text at the top..... To repeat whats been said many times, its not that difficult, to get to here - if Mr Hecks offering is from a professional design agency, they are taking him for a ride.... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted April 26 Author VT Supporter Share Posted April 26 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Ingers said: Standouts for me are clearly the round one - this is actually perfect and two borders gives plenty of blue - and then somewhat surprisingly for myself would be the Lerner-crest shape but with the new/temp. round badge lion and the two-lined Aston Villa.- this would scale down and be readable very small. In fact, I already tried to so similar but didn't manage it as well as yours because you have much better contrast in the gold: Edited April 26 by fightoffyour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarryOnVilla Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 8 minutes ago, Ingers said: Some Golden Lions, and Old v New lion comparisons, side by side for you all......especially @fightoffyour and @Jas10 ! Then, compared to claret lion on blue, and even some no gold options.... I still think the old Lion looks very 'slabby' or flat/tubby (almost dragon-esque) next to the new one (the 'ornamental' old lion is beyond my skills in illustrator). As a team who are the original Claret n Blue team, I feel we need as much claret and blue in the badge as possible - or we look very much like claret n gold or that 'bubbles' are involved as another poster said. Curved top also helps get the font slightly bigger for the name to stand out....maybe Mr Heck knows what he's, no wait, text at the top..... To repeat whats been said many times, its not that difficult, to get to here - if Mr Hecks offering is from a professional design agency, they are taking him for a ride.... Seeing both lions together, makes think I like the newer one more, it just scales better… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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