The General FFP (Financial Fair Play) Thread

[VillaJ100]

12 hours ago, Kuwabatake Sanjuro said:

 

Just goes to show the bad company we have been keeping, if we had made a less inspired appointment after Gerrard we'd definitely be facing serious issues.

That should drop substantially with the new sponsorship deals next year?

Also to be honest I would have thought it would be optimum practice if you owners willing to fund that you have losses right up to the limit without breaching it, to enable maximum spending. The dodgy bit is if you start gambling that you'll finish in certain places every year like Newcastle assuming they were going to be a champions league team going forward.

Of course vermin like Man U can miss out multiple times and still spend what they want cos of the huge headstart they have

[KevinRichardsonsMoustache]

The old adage stands: complexity favours the incumbents. 
 

The only way this is sorted is if an independent regulator writes a new set of rules and punishments that are transparent and applied routinely.

Whether they get us or not, the rules are a farce. 

[thabucks]

Sorry mods if it’s too general but as this relates to both us and the whole league thought I’d place this here . 

Quote

A 'luxury tax' has been considered, where those clubs who overspend will have a financial punishment which would increase the more they splash the cash. But clubs can choose to press on regardless if they wish.

The monies collected, which could run into the tens of millions, would then be redistributed to those Premier League who complied with the rules. It has been discussed that some of the fines could even go into an 'emergency fund' to assist EFL clubs in financial danger.

Currently, such a tax features in America's Major League Baseball and National Basketball Association, and relates to the amount spent on the salaries of the playing squad.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-13271249/Premier-League-eyeing-ABOLISHING-points-deductions-introducing-NBA-style-luxury-tax-fears-stars-leave-rules-restrict-pay-Everton-Nottingham-Forest-lost-points.html

[PeterSw]

Absolute joke if that goes through.

Fines will be pocket change to all the rich owners and will be abused.

Already happening in NBA and MLB which makes the big teams separate from the rest.

[Delphinho123]

Would probably signal the end of football in this country tbh. Honestly, I'd probably give up with it. 

We would spend more, undoubtedly, but it would just be the nation states competing against each other. 

Football is heading towards a f****** disaster in this country. Unless FFP is somehow changed, I don't know where this all ends up. The league is absolutely terrified of punishing Man City and the rules will change to reflect that. 

[sharkyvilla]

7 minutes ago, PeterSw said:

Absolute joke if that goes through.

Fines will be pocket change to all the rich owners and will be abused.

Already happening in NBA and MLB which makes the big teams separate from the rest.

Tbh I think it's alright.  Ignoring the oil teams for a moment, it seems daft that we can be debt free, selling out games every week and on the verge of qualifying for the Champions League and yet may have to look to sell a big name player just to comply with the current rules.  If owners can give cash to the FA, they then confirm it's kosher then give it back minus say, 20% tax which gets distributed out, then I think it's a bit fairer.

[Captain_Townsend]

27 minutes ago, thabucks said:

Sorry mods if it’s too general but as this relates to both us and the whole league thought I’d place this here . 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-13271249/Premier-League-eyeing-ABOLISHING-points-deductions-introducing-NBA-style-luxury-tax-fears-stars-leave-rules-restrict-pay-Everton-Nottingham-Forest-lost-points.html

I am giving up if that comes in. Absolute joke.

Mobilisation stopped the super league there needs to be mobilisation to stop this.

[Czarnikjak]

54 minutes ago, Captain_Townsend said:

I am giving up if that comes in. Absolute joke.

Mobilisation stopped the super league there needs to be mobilisation to stop this.

Pretty much the same system is already in place in uefa competitions. It's more than likely that Premier League will adopt something similar.

As usual, the devil is in the detail, so let's wait for all the details to emerge  before "giving up".

[Delphinho123]

15 minutes ago, Czarnikjak said:

Pretty much the same system is already in place in uefa competitions. It's more than likely that Premier League will adopt something similar.

As usual, the devil is in the detail, so let's wait for all the details to emerge  before "giving up".

I refuse to be told when and when not to give up. I'll give up right now if I want to. 

[MWARLEY2]

The 70 percent uefa rule would still be in effect so we wouldnt be able to spend more anyway . Whereas for the lower and midtable premier teams they would instantly become more competitive * until they got into European places * 

[Django_Zooms]

It's not just from football that these billionaires escape punishment. Miniscule fine & no prison time for Spurs owner from insider trading, which illegally generated huge wealth.  

BBC News - Joe Lewis: How one of Britain's richest people broke insider trading laws
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68716896

 

[Zatman]

12 minutes ago, Django_Zooms said:

It's not just from football that these billionaires escape punishment. Miniscule fine & no prison time for Spurs owner from insider trading, which illegally generated huge wealth.  

BBC News - Joe Lewis: How one of Britain's richest people broke insider trading laws
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68716896

 

Its a paltry fine but he didnt get jail time mainly because of his age

[Delphinho123]

8 minutes ago, UpTheVilla26 said:

We'd be better off just spending money like idiots, winning everything in sight, getting a top lawyer on board who can make sure the FFP charges are so complicated to prove that it'll take years - if at all - to prove. 

Surprised no club has gone down this route to be honest... 

It’s a lot different with Man City. A lot more politics at play. We’re talking about a nation state that invests a lot into the country and they’ll no doubt have politicians on the payroll.

It would take a brave man at the PL to punish City as they should be punished. You can guarantee there will be a lot of creative thinking going on with the punishment. They’d probably take a 30 point deduction and a 1/2yr ban from European competitions at this point. It wouldn’t mean a whole lot as they’ll still finish in the top half of the table and the players could probably see past not playing in Europe for a season or two if it protects their inflated wages.

City should be relegated, stripped of their trophies and the EFL should think twice about allowing them to enter their league structure.

Like I say, this won’t happen because there will be some threatening conversations from the Emirati if they’re punished. 

Edited April 5 by Delphinho123

[John]

20 hours ago, thabucks said:

Sorry mods if it’s too general but as this relates to both us and the whole league thought I’d place this here . 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-13271249/Premier-League-eyeing-ABOLISHING-points-deductions-introducing-NBA-style-luxury-tax-fears-stars-leave-rules-restrict-pay-Everton-Nottingham-Forest-lost-points.html

I wouldn't mind the luxury tax idea, as long as it didn't mean that clubs could spend really silly money. I wouldn't have a problem with clubs spending £150m in a season above what they brought in, so long as their owners put up the same amount, so the club wouldn't go out of business, if they pulled the plug later. The figure should be the same for every club though. For the likes of Luton and Citeh, as well as for every club in between them. They should have the choice of making that investment or not, but should still be penalised harshly if they spent above that figure, as should Citeh still be now. That way clubs that get promoted could spend a decent amount to stay up, clubs like us are not put in a position, where they are forced to sell players and the likes of Newcastle cannot just spend what they like, as often as they like.  

[duke313]

So, this new "Luxury Tax" that's going to replace FFP/PSR is basically just going to allow the like to City/Newcastle/Chelsea to spend what they like, they just have to pay a "tax" to do so?  I suppose it doesn't really matter as we aren't going to catch City under current rules or this change, but allowing our owners to spend and not be restricted by FFP might let us catch the likes of Liverpool or Spurs, as they would no longer have the FFP shield to hide behind.

[MotoMkali]

If luxury tax was to be brought in - it should be based on a flat amount. 200 mil is the limit before tax and then for each 40 mil you go over you enter a different bracket.

First 40 mil, you pay an extra 1 pound per pound over, next 40 mil 2 quid, next 40 mil 3 quid.

If a club wants to spend 400 mil they have to pay an extra 600 mil. 

You could tweak the brackets you could perhaps maybe so the goal is to limit spending at like 500-600 to allow the prem to compete with real and barca. If you made the brackets 100 mil, to spend 500 mil you'd have to pay another 600 mil and you could divide that between every club in the prem and send like half of it to the football league as well. 

If they want to introduce a luxury tax it should be based on the premise to make the playing field mroe level not to make it so those ultra wealthy clubs can keep spending. 

Edited April 5 by MotoMkali

[Follyfoot]

1 hour ago, duke313 said:

So, this new "Luxury Tax" that's going to replace FFP/PSR is basically just going to allow the like to City/Newcastle/Chelsea to spend what they like, they just have to pay a "tax" to do so?  I suppose it doesn't really matter as we aren't going to catch City under current rules or this change, but allowing our owners to spend and not be restricted by FFP might let us catch the likes of Liverpool or Spurs, as they would no longer have the FFP shield to hide behind.

Taking into account the part sale to Comcast and the combined wealth of Naz and Wes are we not the third richest club in the league? 

[Czarnikjak]

5 hours ago, duke313 said:

So, this new "Luxury Tax" that's going to replace FFP/PSR is basically just going to allow the like to City/Newcastle/Chelsea to spend what they like, they just have to pay a "tax" to do so?  I suppose it doesn't really matter as we aren't going to catch City under current rules or this change, but allowing our owners to spend and not be restricted by FFP might let us catch the likes of Liverpool or Spurs, as they would no longer have the FFP shield to hide behind.

You assuming our owners would be OK with having to pump in £200m+ of their own money every season to "catch up" with Spurs and Liverpool.

Yes, they are rich, but they are not a charity. I would argue that even if silly spending was allowed, they wouldn't put in much more than they do already (or they would have never bothered buying the club, knowing that competing with state owned clubs is futile).

[Lichfield Dean]

I know FFP/PSR doesn't work this way, and debt isn't always a bad thing, but to me this is the most important of all the charts, especially when considered in conjunction with some of the others:

Quote

11. Total debt

And to the big one....

 

Football is an expensive business. And then there is the significant borrowing of clubs such as Manchester United or Tottenham for their new stadium.

 

"Net debt is the total amount of borrowings that a club has, less any cash," says Maguire.

 

According to his figures, current Premier League club debt levels are approximately £3.6bn...

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68713522

[paul514]

1 hour ago, Lichfield Dean said:

I know FFP/PSR doesn't work this way, and debt isn't always a bad thing, but to me this is the most important of all the charts, especially when considered in conjunction with some of the others:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68713522

how the **** do Brighton have that much debt?