"The Terrace View" - Upper Holte Lounge

[ender4]

54 minutes ago, birdman said:

Why isn't there any actual photos of the terrace view facilities on the official website? (The cynic in me says stinky marketing ploy and it looks nothing like the CGI images )

I don’t think the Terrace View actually exists. It’s just a ploy from Doug Ellis to get us all riled up and ignore the fact we’re made zero signings this summer and that Defoe is lost somewhere in a basement. 

[birdman]

3 minutes ago, ender4 said:

I don’t think the Terrace View actually exists. It’s just a ploy from Doug Ellis to get us all riled up and ignore the fact we’re made zero signings this summer and that Defoe is lost somewhere in a basement. 

Yep reeks of a PsyOp. Either that or its a maximum security stockade housing a  crack footballing unit sent to the reserves for crimes they didnt commit. "If you have a problem, if no one else can help and if you can afford a terrace view ticket, maybe you can hire the bomb squad" *

*subject to availability

[DaveAV1]

On 29/08/2023 at 14:42, limpid said:

Perhaps you could use "I" when it's a personal opinion.

I think everyone in the Holte is a sophisticated fan, otherwise why would they be there?

To watch a game of football?

[limpid]

1 minute ago, DaveAV1 said:

To watch a game of football?

I was thinking Bruce Springsteen.

[DaveAV1]

11 minutes ago, limpid said:

I was thinking Bruce Springsteen.

Whatever gets you to sleep at night!

[blandy]

9 minutes ago, limpid said:

I was thinking Bruce Springsteen.

Maybe he's down the Sty?

Er, anyway, I get what @DaveAV1 is saying - "gentrification" of the Holte is not what a lot of supporters want. Yes, improve facilities and make more revenue as a consequence, but not at the expense of depriving other fans by giving them worse facilities. Keep the soul of the Holte intact.

[limpid]

2 minutes ago, blandy said:

Maybe he's down the Sty?

Er, anyway, I get what @DaveAV1 is saying - "gentrification" of the Holte is not what a lot of supporters want. Yes, improve facilities and make more revenue as a consequence, but not at the expense of depriving other fans by giving them worse facilities. Keep the soul of the Holte intact.

I remember when people said that about seating. And they said it about having an upper tier.

Things change. Some people like the changes. Some don't. We've had people (threaten to) leave VT because I changed the look.

I don't like the reduced facilities - that affects me too. However, I don't see this as "gentrification" just because the tickets cost more. I don't see more than the slightest connection between the two. Everyone in the stand is a Villa fan.

[DaveAV1]

6 minutes ago, limpid said:

I remember when people said that about seating. And they said it about having an upper tier.

Things change. Some people like the changes. Some don't. We've had people (threaten to) leave VT because I changed the look.

I don't like the reduced facilities - that affects me too. However, I don't see this as "gentrification" just because the tickets cost more. I don't see more than the slightest connection between the two. Everyone in the stand is a Villa fan.

Pricing people out in the name of improvement and making an area elite, or at least suggesting that definitely doesn’t sit well with the traditional football supporter, regardless of how it’s titled. 

[limpid]

10 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

Pricing people out in the name of improvement and making an area elite, or at least suggesting that definitely doesn’t sit well with the traditional football supporter, regardless of how it’s titled. 

It's no reason to resent other Villa fans.

What are you doing to inform the club that you don't want change? Are you going to "other" some Villa fans and make out it's their fault?

And you've drifted back into speaking for other fans again. I'm a traditional football supporter (34 years in the Holte) and I'm fine with it.

[blandy]

31 minutes ago, limpid said:

It's no reason to resent other Villa fans.

What are you doing to inform the club that you don't want change? Are you going to "other" some Villa fans and make out it's their fault?

And you've drifted back into speaking for other fans again. I'm a traditional football supporter (34 years in the Holte) and I'm fine with it.

Not speaking for Dave, but disapproval of this particular (TV) way that 500 odd standard seats have been repriced to £124 quid, for which you also get a couple of beers, a programme and an exclusive lounge and terrace area is not anything to do with resenting other fans, blaming them for taking the opportunity to take up the offer or whatever. But, to me, it removes those 500 seats from accessibility for the types of supporters who can’t afford or justify that outlay. The people who do take up the seats are every bit as much a fan as the next man or woman and I sincerely hope they enjoy their games and the facilities. But it is an egregious example of the club (and Purslow in particular) grasping every last penny. Villa has got a huge amount right in the past few years, but the treatment of supporters is not one of those areas where they’ve done so well. We all accept that for reasons outside the control of any single club, the clubs feel they have to do this kind of thing, but we don’t have to like it (we, in this instance being me).

[DaveAV1]

3 hours ago, limpid said:

It's no reason to resent other Villa fans.

What are you doing to inform the club that you don't want change? Are you going to "other" some Villa fans and make out it's their fault?

And you've drifted back into speaking for other fans again. I'm a traditional football supporter (34 years in the Holte) and I'm fine with it.

Well done you I’m very happy for you. 

[MrBlack]

It is gentrification... almost exactly by definition:

Quote

changed by wealthier people moving in, ... often displacing current inhabitants in the process.

The people that are buying TV tickets, in place of claret members that can't afford it and now can't sit in the holte end as a result, will in nearly all cases be wealthier.

It's not necessarily a bad thing. As suggested, they're (probably) all villa fans if they don't reach general sale,  but I'll be pleasantly surprised if the atmosphere doesn't get impacted by it.

[DaveAV1]

22 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

Well done you I’m very happy for you. 

I don’t resent anyone but for some people it’s an issue of affordability at a difficult time for finances in general. The old single terrace all standing Holte thst we all knew and loved, was popular first of all many years ago because people could afford it. As a place that lots of Villa fans could afford it was popular and became a rallying point both during and between games. It’s now famous in England and throughout the world. It was the greatest single terrace ever created and it was always more than just concrete and steal. It’s important within football in general but particularly to us Villa fans, in my most humble opinion but quite likely many Villa fans and possibly the fans of other clubs would agree. It’s our heart and soul in my oppinion, wouldn’t you agree?Decisions made by a briefly employed CEO with no real emotional attachment to Villa or our city has damaged us. I ask the question, would he have, or got away with doing this to his beloved Kop at Anfield?  It’s damage done that needs to be rectified. There’s plenty of space in other areas of the stadium for gentrification, The Holte End isn’t one of them. In my opinion of course. Cultural vandalism at its worst. Would Steve Stride ever have done or allowed such a thing to be done? I doubt it, because he understood Aston Villa. I’m not even sure Doug would have allowed it and let’s face it he could easily be accused of being a vandal as we know! 

Edited August 30, 2023 by DaveAV1

[OutByEaster?]

27 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

There’s plenty of space in other areas of the stadium for gentrification.

Unfortunately, there really isn't - there's not another space like this really in the ground.

Therein lies the problem - this was both the only place they could do this and probably the only place they shouldn't have done it this way.

[DaveAV1]

4 hours ago, limpid said:

It's no reason to resent other Villa fans.

What are you doing to inform the club that you don't want change? Are you going to "other" some Villa fans and make out it's their fault?

And you've drifted back into speaking for other fans again. I'm a traditional football supporter (34 years in the Holte) and I'm fine with it.

And for some strange reason you’ve drifted into telling me what you think my words mean. When did I say I resented anyone? It’s not Villa fans fault at all. The blame is firmly at the door of our former CEO. That isn’t my opinion but a straight fact. Thank goodness he’s no longer here, but I’m not sure that this is the end of the damage he’s already done. 

[wilko154]

In my mind the reason for the hostility towards TV, and the anger from sections of the Holte End, is due to the way the club surveyed the supporters and then completely ignored what they asked for. The survey they put out last season was a request for what they would want to improve their matchday experience, many answered the survey honestly with requests for better services, better food and drink options, and more areas to sit or generally enjoy the concourse areas pre game.

The way Villa have taken the survey results, or likely posed the questions, has resulted in them bringing in TV and charging supporters more money for effectively a hospitality like experience. The problem with this is 95% of Holte End supporters not only see no benefit, but lose out on existing space and services from their original season ticket package; members lose out on the possibility of tickets to home games; and away supporters lose out on the possibility of tickets to games due to premium fans being offered a queue jump.

I understand that Aston Villa as a club need to make money; and TV is a large revenue stream. However there are plenty of extra revenue streams that could have been implemented in the Holte End to increase matchday income. For a start fixing all of the issues at food and drink stalls in the concourses in the Holte End, and the rest of the stadium would increase the amount of people able to use them pre match and at half time. Improving the concourses as the survey suggested would see fans getting to the ground earlier and spending more money pre-match. That's a target audience of 13,000 alone in the Holte.

TV is a great concept, and I can fully understand why people have taken up the option; but some parts of it should never have been offered to supporters. It's not a scheme that should have ever been implemented in the Holte End. It's historically the biggest stand at Villa Park, where the working class spend their Saturdays. It's not a hospitality stand where money talks. With a new North Stand being built, it provided the club the perfect pace to bring TV into place without using existing space and removing facilities for existing supporters; all whilst charging more for the privelige.

As I've said a lot in recent years, the club need a higher income to push on, however taking from supporters is not always the way to do it. It's all well and good improving what's on the pitch, but facilities need to improve alongside this to justify constant price rises. Football fans, and Villa fans, are a huge mix of people and many don't have buckets of cash to spend on football each year; pushing them out just because they can't afford it is unfair. 

A lot of these supporters have been at this club in some of it's worst moments; and if we ever go back to those times they will still be there when some certainly won't.

[Sulberto21]

I have to keep reminding myself that TV means terrace view not television.  

[Don_Simon]

7 hours ago, DaveAV1 said:

And for some strange reason you’ve drifted into telling me what you think my words mean. When did I say I resented anyone? It’s not Villa fans fault at all. The blame is firmly at the door of our former CEO. That isn’t my opinion but a straight fact. Thank goodness he’s no longer here, but I’m not sure that this is the end of the damage he’s already done. 

It's not a "straight fact" though, is it. You've no idea who drove this idea. 

[cheltenham_villa]

8 hours ago, wilko154 said:

In my mind the reason for the hostility towards TV, and the anger from sections of the Holte End, is due to the way the club surveyed the supporters and then completely ignored what they asked for. The survey they put out last season was a request for what they would want to improve their matchday experience, many answered the survey honestly with requests for better services, better food and drink options, and more areas to sit or generally enjoy the concourse areas pre game.

The way Villa have taken the survey results, or likely posed the questions, has resulted in them bringing in TV and charging supporters more money for effectively a hospitality like experience. The problem with this is 95% of Holte End supporters not only see no benefit, but lose out on existing space and services from their original season ticket package; members lose out on the possibility of tickets to home games; and away supporters lose out on the possibility of tickets to games due to premium fans being offered a queue jump.

I understand that Aston Villa as a club need to make money; and TV is a large revenue stream. However there are plenty of extra revenue streams that could have been implemented in the Holte End to increase matchday income. For a start fixing all of the issues at food and drink stalls in the concourses in the Holte End, and the rest of the stadium would increase the amount of people able to use them pre match and at half time. Improving the concourses as the survey suggested would see fans getting to the ground earlier and spending more money pre-match. That's a target audience of 13,000 alone in the Holte.

TV is a great concept, and I can fully understand why people have taken up the option; but some parts of it should never have been offered to supporters. It's not a scheme that should have ever been implemented in the Holte End. It's historically the biggest stand at Villa Park, where the working class spend their Saturdays. It's not a hospitality stand where money talks. With a new North Stand being built, it provided the club the perfect pace to bring TV into place without using existing space and removing facilities for existing supporters; all whilst charging more for the privelige.

As I've said a lot in recent years, the club need a higher income to push on, however taking from supporters is not always the way to do it. It's all well and good improving what's on the pitch, but facilities need to improve alongside this to justify constant price rises. Football fans, and Villa fans, are a huge mix of people and many don't have buckets of cash to spend on football each year; pushing them out just because they can't afford it is unfair. 

A lot of these supporters have been at this club in some of it's worst moments; and if we ever go back to those times they will still be there when some certainly won't.

I think the questions in the survey were clear and people responded to say that they would generally be interested in some form of premium seating. The bit I think everyone is a bit put out about is the pricing and the fact that premium seems to have come instead of upgrading other facilities. 

I dont quite get the working class bit either I'm afraid. Unless I'm mistaken the Holte is c90% season ticket holders paying nearly a grand for a season ticket. You could probably consider it already gentrified. 

[Mark Albrighton]

1 hour ago, Don_Simon said:

It's not a "straight fact" though, is it. You've no idea who drove this idea. 

It’s interesting.

The club seemed happy enough to row back on the club badge, rejig the Villa Live building stuff. 

Both of those initial concepts had also been attributed to Purslow and the subsequent change of plan in both cases has generally been “The club cleaning up Purslow’s mess, hooray for the club.”

Weirdly they don’t seem bothered to clean up, delay or improve this perceived mess. They’ve ploughed on with it. Which suggests to me that they wanted this to happen in its current form, Purslow or not.

So that’s kinda inconsistent.

I’ve also seen it put forward that as  Purslow was running the show the owners would adopt a benevolent, stand off-ish approach with regard to running the club. Hence why this has happened in the Holte and the owners have had no horse in this race whatsoever.

And yet these are the same owners, Sawiris in particular, who had a white hot rage and cut Purslow off at the testicles, taking personal charge in getting rid of his boy Gerrard and bringing in Emery.

Again, kinda inconsistent.

I also find it curious as to what point the owners decided they had employed a complete dunderhead as their CEO and how that ties in with them allowing him to press ahead with these plans. Again, seems somewhat inconsistent to know you’ve unwittingly had Frank Spencer employed as your CEO for over four years, seek other individuals to take away his responsibilities and yet STILL allow him to implement these things. The guy whose card was marked after Gerrard? If the owners or Chris Heck really hated the terrace bar idea, is it proceeding? I think not.

Regarding the Terrace, I’m uneasy about it. I don’t mind the idea of having a “nice” part of the stand to bring in extra revenue. I very much dislike the idea that other supporters are having their match day experience hampered by it. I also very much dislike the idea of supporters setting themselves off against one another.

But even if this was solely Purslow’s brainchild…he’s not here anymore. You can’t credit the club with mopping up after him in some cases and still blame JUST him for something the club have proceeded with after he’s gone. If you don’t like it, you’re going to have to suck it up and blame the individuals at the club who have gone ahead and actually implemented it.