"The Terrace View" - Upper Holte Lounge

[Zatman]

On 29/08/2023 at 16:04, Villanbee said:

That pretty much sums up what I thought it would be. A bar for existing Upper Holte supporters to pay a bit more to get there early and have drinks pre-match in nicer surroundings than the existing concourses. An alternative to going to the pub pre match and to encourage the fans to spend their money in the ground rather than down the road.

The kind of place you wouldn't mind sitting down and spending an hour or two pre-game (which is not what the concourses are designed to do). Turn up in the usual way through normal turnstile, go to HETV, tap debit/credit card at the door for the entrance fee and go in.

The club were always trying to get fans into the stadium early and that would tick all the boxes. Something that would enhance the experience for existing Holte End ticket holders who wish to enter the ground early for a reasonable price whilst increasing the club's opportunity for volume food and drink sales.

Instead what we've been given is a hospitality facility for anyone who is in a position to splash the cash to attend (including football tourists and, I suspect, covert away fans) at the detriment (see examples in earlier posts) of the existing Holte End ticket holders who have all had to stomach a sizeable ticket price increase.

It was never going to go down well, was it?

Last part about away fans will be put to the test on Sunday. If tickets were openly available then some Liverpool fans might have taken advantage

[brommy]

1 hour ago, tomav84 said:

this is something i'd like put to the FCG meeting. maybe another survey. how would holte end season ticket holders feel about another price hike, but with the terrace view being open to all? just take away the free program and beers

Unlikely but not impossible.

Given the 16% rise we've just suffered for dirtier reduced space and facilities (although hopefully the building dirt will be sorted by tonight), I think asking for even more money might be too much for some fans. 

IF  the walls currently separating the lounge area from remaining concourse were to be removed and the new lounge, bars and terrace area was incorporated back in to a much upgraded concourse for all Upper Holte fans to use, I might stomach another 10% for next season.

I think it's more likely that increased bar/food facilities (such as the screen ordering already used in the Lower Holte) and more toilets be introduced in the what remains of the concourse space.

Less likely but still reasonable and possible, is reducing the TVL entry cost to season ticket holders down to a point where the TVL is consistently used to its capacity of 1000. This will slightly reduce the stress on the concourse areas used by the remaining 5000 or so.

My preference would be to knock down the separation walls and treat the it as an improved concourse area, encouraging fans to spend longer in the stand before and after matches and increasing hospitality revenue that way. However, even given the recent significant price increases, I suspect this is unlikely.

 

[Villanbee]

11 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Last part about away fans will be put to the test on Sunday. If tickets were openly available then some Liverpool fans might have taken advantage

We're away on Sunday.

[MrBlack]

The club,  regardless of Purslow being here or not, were acting on the results of a survey. A survey presented to them in a way that made it seem that Holte Enders wanted to pay loads more money for a service theu should largely have already been recieving.

Again, regardless of Purslow, the fact they belive ld such a story, acted on it, and fully went through with it, tells you they either didn't think it was a bad idea or just wanted to plough on regardless because it will make more money. 

I'm convinced they didn't want to do this to shaft fans over. I suspect they are doing it to try and make the club self sustainable at the upper end of the table. Every little income helps. Tottenham aren't making 60m more on matchday income through nothing.  All the improvements to Villa Park are needed to achieve even close to that figure.

Hopefully they come up with a better way to make money from TTV that is less impactful on the long standing holte enders.

[DaveAV1]

7 hours ago, Don_Simon said:

It's not a "straight fact" though, is it. You've no idea who drove this idea. 

Maybe an assumption I’d agree but it’s hard to ignore the overwhelming evidence. 

[Zatman]

1 hour ago, Villanbee said:

We're away on Sunday.

Thought at home as played 2 away already

[blandy]

1 hour ago, MrBlack said:

The club,  regardless of Purslow being here or not, were acting on the results of a survey. A survey presented to them in a way that made it seem that Holte Enders wanted to pay loads more money for a service theu should largely have already been recieving.

Again, regardless of Purslow, the fact they believed such a story, acted on it, and fully went through with it, tells you they either didn't think it was a bad idea or just wanted to plough on regardless because it will make more money. 

I'm convinced they didn't want to do this to shaft fans over. I suspect they are doing it to try and make the club self sustainable at the upper end of the table. Every little income helps. Tottenham aren't making 60m more on matchday income through nothing.  All the improvements to Villa Park are needed to achieve even close to that figure.

Hopefully they come up with a better way to make money from TTV that is less impactful on the long standing holte enders.

The plans for it were in the Planning application docs for the new North stand and I also (IIRC) think @OutByEaster? reported back from an SCG a while ago now, that the club was looking to add a lot of hospitality facilities - something like and extra 1500 places in the New stand, plus the current (then) 2500 places, plus another 2000 "elsewhere" - so I assume 1000 of those (or is it 500?) are the Terrace view ones, and I guess either extra in the Trinity or Witton Lane stands as rebuild and refurbs go on. I think the survey was a bit of a "well we did consult you" thing and they were going to do it anyway as you suggest might have been the case. That's how it seems to me anyway. I think if they'd asked if fans agreed there should be 1000 seats in the Upper Holte made over to Hospitality, with the upper concourse out of bounds to "normal" ticket holders, they'd not have got the answer they got by asking in the way they did.

[Villatillidie95]

Were fan relations between the terrace view and the normal tier holte Enders okay yday? Anymore flashpoints like the half time vid from last week? 

[blobbyrob]

On 01/09/2023 at 09:59, Villatillidie95 said:

Were fan relations between the terrace view and the normal tier holte Enders okay yday? Anymore flashpoints like the half time vid from last week? 

I personally didn't notice any animosity.

Had a laugh with one guy who asked me "is there any spare prawn sandwiches in there mate" as I came out to take my seat 

For information: I would say it was probably about 50% capacity compared to the Everton game which is understandable as not included in the season ticket.

[sidcow]

On 31/08/2023 at 10:28, AvfcRigo82 said:

So you're not convinced it was Purslow - or even 'who' for that matter? 

That's fine, so if you're not sure yourself, then why are you pulling up others who are laying blame to the person who made it well known they were involved and behind in this and other things?

I don't mind defence, but don't leap to someone's rescue when they've a list of errors, then try and say you're not sure if it all was him or not that was behind it.

Well we'll soon find out next season. If the project is abandoned and an apology is forthcoming we'll know the rest of the Board knew nothing about this and never wanted it to happen won't we. 

[blandy]

2 hours ago, sidcow said:

Well we'll soon find out next season. If the project is abandoned and an apology is forthcoming we'll know the rest of the Board knew nothing about this and never wanted it to happen won't we. 

No. Unless someone tells us, we will never know. Keeping it tells us nothing. Getting rid also tells us nothing, other than (if it’s the case) the prices were too high to make it work, or the amount of complaints need to be listened to.

The reason it was done was to raise more income. That’s it. “We need more corporate seating”.  Where can we find to have the extra? New north stand? Yep. Trinity? Yep, if we fettle the facilities to be better that’ll raise more income. Witton Lane? Not really the space. Holte? Yep, there’s room there, but they’re not gonna like it. How can we justify it? Loaded survey questions.  

[sidcow]

29 minutes ago, blandy said:

No. Unless someone tells us, we will never know. Keeping it tells us nothing. Getting rid also tells us nothing, other than (if it’s the case) the prices were too high to make it work, or the amount of complaints need to be listened to.

The reason it was done was to raise more income. That’s it. “We need more corporate seating”. 

That's entirely my point. The accusation was that this was purely a vanity project driven by one individual. 

It clearly isn't. It's a project desired by the club and owners who desire to make more money.  

If it was an unwanted vanity project the owners will clearly backtrack. They're not going to because it's part of their strategy which would unquestionably have been delivered with their blessing. 

It's here and here it will stay.  Heck may put his stamp on it to change it though. 

 

Edited September 2, 2023 by sidcow

[DakotaVilla]

40 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Well we'll soon find out next season. If the project is abandoned and an apology is forthcoming we'll know the rest of the Board knew nothing about this and never wanted it to happen won't we. 

There’s no way in the world it will be abandoned next season. Only 69 Terrace View tickets left for the palace game with 2 weeks to go. 
 

I also very much doubt that there will be an apology. I’d expect season tickets to go up again by 10 to 15 % but hopefully they will take the opportunity next summer to get facilities and service levels for regular season ticket holders up to at least minimum standards. 
 

 

 

[sidcow]

1 hour ago, blobbyrob said:

I personally didn't notice any animosity.

Had a laugh with one guy who asked me "is there any spare prawn sandwiches in there mate" as I came out to take my seat 

For information: I would say it was probably about 50% capacity compared to the Everton game which is understandable as not included in the season ticket.

How much do you reckon people spend in there typically? 

Are people staying late and getting there much earlier having a few beers? Are people generally eating? 

People seem very keen for this to be seen as a disaster. 

Personally I tend to get to the ground about 10 to 20 minutes before kick off. I rarely have a drink, I very occasionally have a bowl of chips.  My lad will usually get a pint if we've time. 

I short the club get very little more from me than my admission price. 

I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that TV even at half capacity still generates significantly more income than double the equivalent of standard seats, and massively more if it's full. 

I suspect come the end of the season the owners will be very satisfied with what's been done here. 

 

[brommy]

3 minutes ago, DakotaVilla said:

There’s no way in the world it will be abandoned next season. Only 69 Terrace View tickets left for the palace game with 2 weeks to go. 

I also very much doubt that there will be an apology. I’d expect season tickets to go up again by 10 to 15 % but hopefully they will take the opportunity next summer to get facilities and service levels for regular season ticket holders up to at least minimum standards. 
 

I expect some of that demand will be the novelty of trying something new but, bearing in mind it's 'only' Palace, it does appear that the TVL even under the current pricing could be successful, if not for the 80% of Upper Holte fans not using it!

I wouldn't expect an apology but I would prefer, even expect, some action on the concourse facilities. With no game at Villa Park for over two weeks since Thursday evening, why can't the fast ordering screens of the Lower Holte be installed and the remaining concourse areas be cleaned of all the building dust that was still covering the floor and walls at the Hibs game, in time for the Palace game? 

I had a look around the reduced concourse on Thursday evening. Unfortunately the area has been reduced so dramatically, a quick solution to the reduced toilet facilities is not obvious. Hopefully some designer can be more creative, although that would probably need to wait until next summer.

[blobbyrob]

1 minute ago, sidcow said:

How much do you reckon people spend in there typically?  Obviously hard to say. For the 2 games so far myself & my brother have spent roughly £20 each on food & drinks plus our 2 drinks vouchers each.

Are people staying late and getting there much earlier having a few beers? Are people generally eating? For the 1st game v Everton it was packed 90 mins before kick off, but only about a 3rd full after the game. Plenty eating & drinking before the game,. Strangely the food kiosk is closed after the game so only drinks available. It's a great option to have a couple of pints for an hour or so after the game in a relaxed atmosphere.

It's such a shame It seems to have impacted the concourse facilities for the rest of the upper Holte enders.

 

 

[sidcow]

6 minutes ago, blobbyrob said:

 

Yeah, as I suspected it's going to be a very successful area for the club. Owners will be happy. Good work by somebody. 

I'm sure they'll upgrade the hospitality offering in Upper Holte to match The Lower Holte.  It will improve things for the general admission fans hugely.  As someone said earlier in the thread with the short time frame it was probably too much work to fit into a relatively small area to get both done. 

They're going to get it in the neck at the next fans forum so they'll be very aware of the dissatisfied customers elsewhere. 

I'd love to know how financially successful the Lower Holte changes have been. Certainly there are no queues but are they also selling more and making more money?

I'm 100% sure they'll get this sorted soon.  

Lack of toilets is more difficult though obviously. 

 

[Talldarkandransome]

On 01/09/2023 at 09:59, Villatillidie95 said:

Were fan relations between the terrace view and the normal tier holte Enders okay yday? Anymore flashpoints like the half time vid from last week? 

Egg and flour next time

[blandy]

1 hour ago, sidcow said:

That's entirely my point. The accusation was that this was purely a vanity project driven by one individual. 

It clearly isn't. It's a project desired by the club and owners who desire to make more money.  

I don't think anyone's said it was a vanity project.

That it was driven by one individual, almost certainly, but acting under a need to raise revenue sources. The specifics are in my opinion entirely within the realm of the CEO, but would have been communicated to the owners. They (IMO) didn't block it, but I very much doubt it was anything other than a CEO led thing.

Others may view it differently, of course, and that's fine.

[sidcow]

2 minutes ago, blandy said:

I don't think anyone's said it was a vanity project.

 

 

On 29/08/2023 at 22:48, AvfcRigo82 said:

I didn't ask for it because I'm not the owner of the club?  Whether they are the owners or any owners for that matter I don't think it would be a good idea to piss fans of with a "we'll do what we want approach" nor do NasWes or Heck strike me as being like that for that matter.

They can do as they please to an extent, I get that but I solely do not believe we can lay blame at their door for this.

They will have signed off what looked a glorious idea on paper when presented with it, but I don't think they will be impressed on how it has all gone pear shaped and the goalposts have been moved somewhat in the process.

'I'll get the fans view and I'll submit that, but what will be delivered will be better in my vanity led opinion'.

This isn't the first incident it's happened on either. The gambling and sponsorship is one example and as @NurembergVillan states, the club badge being another example.

Back to the 'throwing of the season ticket at you', yes I would Dem. If i'm a fan with a season ticket, After being one and seated in the same place for say 10yrs+, but now inconvienced in the first place by now having to move and then followed by your attitude of 'move elsewhere if you don't like it' and 'fine, throw your ticket back, there's 19,000+ others waiting for it behind you' i think is poor.

It might be the reality of the situation in your opinion, but sad you assume that you appear to agree it's acceptable to show that attitude to towards fans that have possibly followed the club through thick and thin and parted with hard earned cash along the way to be told now "if you don't like it, move" - "If you don't want it, leave it".

Again, thankfully NasWes have had their eyes opened by the one man pantomime acting out "Carry on Villa" and acted on it swiftly.

The appointment of Heck will allow him to take care of all these kind of matters and other off-field bumflufferies while Monchi, Unai & Friends are taking care of matters on the pitch.

Hopefully this 'TTV' is one of many areas we will see improvement that eventually benefits all.

 

On 29/08/2023 at 02:21, AvfcRigo82 said:

Purslow's Vanity Project - part VII.