picicata Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 10 hours ago, Rodders said: just finished it, never played the game ( though have just picked up a 2nd hand copy now ) and thought it was fine. Maybe playing the game will elevate it a bit. But the ending just left me baffled. Obviously there's more to come I guess, but I thought, is that it? Final ep thoughts Reveal hidden contents Plus it's quite hard to maintain much sympathy for Joel Just a pure psychopath in that last scene? I mean their crime was working for a cure to save humanity, essentially a group of people who've rolled the dice on the trolley problem and made the choice one sacrifice is necessary. Horrendous but given the apocalpytic world around them all, surely understandable. But no they all get mowed down with ruthless abandon. I think you totally got the last episode and the points that were being made by the game (and therefore TV show). It's supposed to leave you feeling ambivalent about both the characters and situation. It's makes you ask questions of yourself. It's not meant to wrap things up neatly in the way that so much TV does as life is rarely that neat. Play the game, you'll love it. And sometime when you're pottering round the house, doing whatever, you'll find yourself thinking on that ending and wondering 'what would I do?' 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan_of_oz Posted March 14, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 14, 2023 Haven't played the game but totally loved the show! Looking to forward to season 2... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 Missus was not happy with the ending, which was very much in line with the game and abrupt. Can imagine a lot of folks who didn’t play the game might be a bit perplexed with the ending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 On 13/03/2023 at 09:50, StefanAVFC said: Now introducing TLOU moral dilemma to a new generation. Curious to know as someone who a) hasn't watched the show and b) thought the narrative of the second game was absolute bobbins (which is predominantly why I haven't given this a pop, as good as this has been sounding); have the writers tweaked the "dilemma" to actually give the second game's story some better justification? By which I mean, if by dilemma we're talking about killing Ellie to possibly find a cure, did they actually give her any agency in the decision to operate? Did they tell her she was going to die as a result, and that actually finding a cure wasn't a guarantee? If not, then my issue with the story stands in that it's not a dilemma in the slightest, it's murder with a side-helping of playing God by medical professionals who should know better. Joel is wrong too, a point which the second game goes to extended lengths to belabour which makes it all the more egregious that it simultaneously absolves... Abby's father ...doing exactly the same thing (arguably worse even, given the pre-op discussion the second game shows the Fireflies having), all to serve the second game's reductive... hey did you guys know revenge is bad, right? ...storyline. All of which is readily fixed by giving Ellie that agency in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 For me, in terms of plot the final episode was as simple and complete as it gets - it resolved Plot A 'Will Ellie make it to the fireflies', also plot B 'will Joel come to terms with the death of his daughter' and plot C 'Will Ellie take control of her future rather than always relying on someone else to fight her corner'. I don't think there were any other big questions they set up that needed an answer in order for this season to come to a satisfactory end. Small gripe time - never relax and start talking puns, you just knew they would get jumped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 13 hours ago, Rodders said: just finished it, never played the game ( though have just picked up a 2nd hand copy now ) and thought it was fine. Maybe playing the game will elevate it a bit. But the ending just left me baffled. Obviously there's more to come I guess, but I thought, is that it? Final ep thoughts Hide contents Plus it's quite hard to maintain much sympathy for Joel Just a pure psychopath in that last scene? I mean their crime was working for a cure to save humanity, essentially a group of people who've rolled the dice on the trolley problem and made the choice one sacrifice is necessary. Horrendous but given the apocalpytic world around them all, surely understandable. But no they all get mowed down with ruthless abandon. I'm not sure you're supposed to have much sympathy for him... Think the show made more of him being a stone cold killer whereas the game with the gameplay it doesnt hit in the same way He's a completely broken man, selfishly put himself first as he couldn't cope with more loss He's put himself and his love for a daughter above all humanity maybe with an element of based on the likes od David (and himself...) questioning does humanity deserve to be saved anyway Enjoy the game its brilliant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Wainy316 Posted March 14, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 14, 2023 52 minutes ago, GarethRDR said: thought the narrative of the second game was absolute bobbins Dude! It's a masterpiece 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 I think the ending was a little bit of an anti climax to be honest. A great series overall, but the shopping mall episode and the finale were the weakest points I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 14, 2023 Author VT Supporter Share Posted March 14, 2023 (edited) 14 hours ago, Rodders said: just finished it, never played the game ( though have just picked up a 2nd hand copy now ) and thought it was fine. Maybe playing the game will elevate it a bit. But the ending just left me baffled. Obviously there's more to come I guess, but I thought, is that it? Final ep thoughts Hide contents Plus it's quite hard to maintain much sympathy for Joel Just a pure psychopath in that last scene? I mean their crime was working for a cure to save humanity, essentially a group of people who've rolled the dice on the trolley problem and made the choice one sacrifice is necessary. Horrendous but given the apocalpytic world around them all, surely understandable. But no they all get mowed down with ruthless abandon. The show is about Joel and Ellie's relationship. That last part with Joel essentially being a psycho shows his complete change from the start of the season. He's gone from a guy so disconnected with Ellie that he didn't even want to do the first tiny part of the task to get a car battery and someone who appears to have morals and doesn't like killing people and will only do it if he can justify it; to someone so connected with Ellie that he would risk his life, murder dozens of others and essentially sacrifice humanity to save her from any harm. It's dark as ****, and psychotic, and selfish... but also beautiful. Obviously I won't spoil anything as you haven't played the games, but don't underestimate how important the ending is Edited March 14, 2023 by Stevo985 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogso Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 I'm hearing and seeing a lot of comments about feeling a bit underwhelmed by the ending, or undecided on it - that was exactly what I felt in the immediate aftermath of finishing the game for the first time. After some reflection and then some replays over the years, I still find it a shocking ending, but I'd also say it's a very good one (in isolation without thinking about part 2). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 14, 2023 Author VT Supporter Share Posted March 14, 2023 I'd also say with the source material already existing, it would have been very difficult to make the ending any different in an attempt to improve it. I loved the ending, but then again I knew what was coming and know what's still to come. So it works for me. I totally understand that without knowing that it probably seemed a bit abrupt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 1 hour ago, Wainy316 said: Dude! It's a masterpiece I didn't see it. First one was a 7/10 game elevated by a 10/10 story, second was a 6/10 game brought down by a bleak-for-the-sake-of-bleak, tone-deaf meditation on the futility of revenge. For me, anyway. I didn't even mind the bait-and-switch part of it, my biggest issue there was that that could have been a great idea, if it wasn't so poorly executed. That being said, admittedly: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 Agree on the first one, 7/10 gameplay 10/10 story Harsh on the 2nd one though, thought they made big steps forward with the gameplay and I could live with the poorer story, it's also brilliantly tense and masters naughty dogs linear arena based "open world" to explore Spoiler Its also genius and completely **** stupid at the same time, no matter who it is your partner will say something once you've cleared an area of enemies "glad that's over" or some such shit... Yet I was still creeping round convinced I was going to get attacked, not sure how they pulled it off (kw) it really shouldn't work but for me it did, I was on the edge of my seat the whole game 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 1 hour ago, hogso said: I'm hearing and seeing a lot of comments about feeling a bit underwhelmed by the ending, or undecided on it - that was exactly what I felt in the immediate aftermath of finishing the game for the first time. After some reflection and then some replays over the years, I still find it a shocking ending, but I'd also say it's a very good one (in isolation without thinking about part 2). Spoiler I wasn't, him lying to her is what did it for me, not the rampage or him saving her, it's her waking up and him lying as to what happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 14, 2023 Author VT Supporter Share Posted March 14, 2023 TLOU2 is the best plot in any game I've ever played. It's absolutely brilliant 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 14, 2023 Author VT Supporter Share Posted March 14, 2023 19 minutes ago, villa4europe said: Hide contents Its also genius and completely **** stupid at the same time, no matter who it is your partner will say something once you've cleared an area of enemies "glad that's over" or some such shit... Yet I was still creeping round convinced I was going to get attacked, not sure how they pulled it off (kw) it really shouldn't work but for me it did, I was on the edge of my seat the whole game I loved both games but that was always my biggest issue with it. It's so obvious when areas are cleared. The game would be so much scarier if you didn't know. Or if you did know but there was a chance an infected could still turn up. It just removed any tension to know that you were no longer at risk until you went to the next area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted March 14, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 14, 2023 Finished this last night and thought it was good, not great. Didn't really feel like there was enough time for Joel's and Ellie's relationship to blossom. Kinda felt like... Spoiler 1 minute he didnt really give a shit about her and was ready to leave her somewhere, and the next he goes on a mass murder spree for her. Was all just a little too fast paced for my liking. But that's just me. Also, it didn't really feel like there was much of a threat of the "clickers" towards the end of the season, kinda forget they're a major part of the universe. But all in all it was good and will definitely watch S2. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 One thing I wasn't sure of was why the lady gave Ellie to Joel to get to the hospital when she ended up there herself by the time they arrived. Why didn't she just take her? I've probably missed some big plot line early on in the series. It was definitely enjoyable, mainly because I'm so amazed by the sets they designed. The story was a 7/10 for me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 15 minutes ago, PieFacE said: Finished this last night and thought it was good, not great. Didn't really feel like there was enough time for Joel's and Ellie's relationship to blossom. Kinda felt like... Hide contents 1 minute he didnt really give a shit about her and was ready to leave her somewhere, and the next he goes on a mass murder spree for her. Was all just a little too fast paced for my liking. But that's just me. Also, it didn't really feel like there was much of a threat of the "clickers" towards the end of the season, kinda forget they're a major part of the universe. But all in all it was good and will definitely watch S2. Was the same for me, liked it but didn't love it. Not played the games but know the story pretty well and have watched parts of playthroughs on Youtube so knew the ending and what not. The best part is the Ellie & Joel relationship but there wasn't enough of it. They spent 2 rather good episodes showing the relationship between a couple side characters but with Joel & Ellie we don't get enough of it. If you've played the game you can no doubt fill in the blanks but for me who have not it's not enough for build up to it for Joel to go John Wick. The whole series felt rushed despite being pretty slow. Agree about the fungus people, not really in the show at all. The apocalypse genre is a favorite of mine and this was well done with good acting. But that also means I've seen it all before with TWD, The Road and tons of more stuff. That said I liked it and I'm looking forward to s2. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 14, 2023 Author VT Supporter Share Posted March 14, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, sharkyvilla said: One thing I wasn't sure of was why the lady gave Ellie to Joel to get to the hospital when she ended up there herself by the time they arrived. Why didn't she just take her? I've probably missed some big plot line early on in the series. It was definitely enjoyable, mainly because I'm so amazed by the sets they designed. The story was a 7/10 for me. Originally they weren't going to the hospital. They were just going to the fireflies base relatively nearby to Boston. Marlene was going to take her but then they got attacked and she got wounded, which is why she asked Tess and Joel to do it. Tess and Joel made the decision to take Ellie further across the country after Tess got infected and the Fireflies base had been attacked so there was nobody else to take her Edited March 14, 2023 by Stevo985 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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