Summer Transfer Window 2022

[Philosopher]

4 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

I think Gerrard correctly surmised that we lacked experience in our team. The problem we have is all our players had got their Premier League experience with Villa. Mings, Buendia, Martnez all had a bit before the joined us but not much.

Ings was the first experienced Prem player we signed and Young but he's not a starter. Digne and Coutinho were a step above with Trophy winning, European and International footballers. Getting Kamara in is great as he's lots of experience for his age but he probably will need time to adapt. Getting Bassey in is also good as he isn't needed for the starting 11 yet and has time to improve.

We have players in Watkins, Cash, Buendia, JJ etc.. who are still learning, having just two season of Premier League football to their names. The culture and mentality of our team has come from their shared experiences learning Premier League football. 

We need that experienced Centre Back, midfielder and striker now. Tarkowski, Bissouma, Suarez for example. 

Experience is irrelevant if the player isn’t the correct fit. Ings as we have seen wasn't really a suitble investment. Tarkowski I don’t believe is the correct fit, Suarez is past his best, only Bissouma is suitable. 

Ultimately what we lack in the first team is leaders. Outside of Mings and Martinez, there aren't any leaders. We need leaders rather than experience for the sake of experience. Ashley Young isn’t a leader, Ings isn't a leader, Suarez isn’t a leader, only Tarkowski is. But I don’t believe Tarkowski is suited to our desired style of play.

[CVByrne]

24 minutes ago, Philosopher said:

Experience is irrelevant if the player isn’t the correct fit. Ings as we have seen wasn't really a suitble investment. Tarkowski I don’t believe is the correct fit, Suarez is past his best, only Bissouma is suitable. 

Ultimately what we lack in the first team is leaders. Outside of Mings and Martinez, there aren't any leaders. We need leaders rather than experience for the sake of experience. Ashley Young isn’t a leader, Ings isn't a leader, Suarez isn’t a leader, only Tarkowski is. But I don’t believe Tarkowski is suited to our desired style of play.

Absolute nonsense. Leader doesn't mean shouting and organising a team. Leaders are players who lead by example. Look at how his Atletico teammates celebrated last season after they won La Liga to see how much influence and leadership they though Suarez brought to them.

 

[HalfTimePost]

28 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

You don't get any awards for the youngest team. You get points for a winning team.

Give me a team of solid 29/30 year olds over possibly successful 22 year olds. 

But the right way to do it is to mix it - Coutinho is what, just short of 30? Is he not a better option than Bailey? 

QPR, Villa, Everton.

All spent lots of money or wages or both on 'experienced', 'proven' players and wasted it all. Sure there's more to add the list, West Ham previously perhaps

[Delphinho123]

Not sure where this idea, or fear even, of having a really old team is coming from. Looking at who we're linked to and probably want to sign based on the weight of speculation, I think this is absolutely fine...

(I'm rounding up based on next season)

Martinez - 29 (Will probably play at the top, top level until he is 34/35)
Cash - 25 (2/3 years away from his prime)
Mings - 29 (Fine)
Tarkowski - 30 (Fine)
Digne - 29 (Fine)
Kamara - 22 (Years away from his prime)
Bissouma - 26 (Coming into his prime)
Ramsey - 21 (Still a kid)
Coutinho - 30 (It's Coutinho)
Buendia - 25 (Still young)
Watkins - 26 (Primetime)

We don't have a single player that's over 31 years old in our starting line up. On top of that, defenders and players in general are playing well into their 30's these days. Players are looking to play past 33/34 whereas this tended to be the retirement age 5-10 years ago.

Comparing that to some of Liverpool's team as an example:

Mane - 30
Salah - 30
Van Dijk - 31
Matip - 30
Robertson - 28
Henderson - 31
Milner - 36
Thiago - 31
Fabinho - 28

The correct strategy is to find the right blend. Right now, I would argue our team lacks experience and is still fairly young which is why I'm all for bringing in players like Tarkowski and even Suarez. We just need to make sure that we bring in younger players, or train up our own younger players as back ups. If we sign Tarkowski and Bassey as an example. You've brought in a ready made centre half with excellent leadership and experience and an awesome prospect to challenge Mings and even displace him either this season or next. 



 

[Mic09]

3 minutes ago, HalfTimePost said:

QPR, Villa, Everton.

All spent lots of money or wages or both on 'experienced', 'proven' players and wasted it all. Sure there's more to add the list, West Ham previously perhaps

Aston Villa.

Hired a bunch of youngsters who struggled and got relegated.

It's about the right players, not their age. Just because you sign a 29 year old, it doesn't mean they are overpaid and over the hill.

[VillaParkAvenue]

24 minutes ago, Philosopher said:

Experience is irrelevant if the player isn’t the correct fit. Ings as we have seen wasn't really a suitble investment. Tarkowski I don’t believe is the correct fit, Suarez is past his best, only Bissouma is suitable. 

Ultimately what we lack in the first team is leaders. Outside of Mings and Martinez, there aren't any leaders. We need leaders rather than experience for the sake of experience. Ashley Young isn’t a leader, Ings isn't a leader, Suarez isn’t a leader, only Tarkowski is. But I don’t believe Tarkowski is suited to our desired style of play.

That’s interesting but I’m curious. How do we know if someone in a group is a leader, without even hearing them speak and just watching them during games? Unless being a leader is mostly the same as being a good player who acts responsibly in games.

Not saying you’re wrong however, your ideas about who are and who aren’t leaders seem reasonable to me.

I’ve also seen the opinion on-pitch leadership isn’t as it used to be, when more teams are increasingly led from the touchline by a controlling manager. I guess that would relate to teams such as Guardiola’s Man City or Conte’s Spurs where the biggest star arguably is the manager, trying to dictate every little detail even during games.

[HalfTimePost]

6 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

Aston Villa.

Hired a bunch of youngsters who struggled and got relegated.

It's about the right players, not their age. Just because you sign a 29 year old, it doesn't mean they are overpaid and over the hill.

We signed Richards (27) Lescott (33)Sinclair (26) Gestede (26) Gueye (25) that season too.

As well as Ayew (23) Traore (19) Amavi (21) Veretout (22) 

The quantity and quality was our issue. Not the mix of kids we signed.

[Philosopher]

22 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

Absolute nonsense. Leader doesn't mean shouting and organising a team. Leaders are players who lead by example. Look at how his Atletico teammates celebrated last season after they won La Liga to see how much influence and leadership they though Suarez brought to them.

 

He is a win at all costs kind of guy. Which you need granted, but not a leader. Do you want people following his biting and racist abusing? A winner not a leader.

[VillaParkAvenue]

17 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

Not sure where this idea, or fear even, of having a really old team is coming from. Looking at who we're linked to and probably want to sign based on the weight of speculation, I think this is absolutely fine...

(I'm rounding up based on next season)

Martinez - 29 (Will probably play at the top, top level until he is 34/35)
Cash - 25 (2/3 years away from his prime)
Mings - 29 (Fine)
Tarkowski - 30 (Fine)
Digne - 29 (Fine)
Kamara - 22 (Years away from his prime)
Bissouma - 26 (Coming into his prime)
Ramsey - 21 (Still a kid)
Coutinho - 30 (It's Coutinho)
Buendia - 25 (Still young)
Watkins - 26 (Primetime)

We don't have a single player that's over 31 years old in our starting line up. On top of that, defenders and players in general are playing well into their 30's these days. Players are looking to play past 33/34 whereas this tended to be the retirement age 5-10 years ago.

Comparing that to some of Liverpool's team as an example:

Mane - 30
Salah - 30
Van Dijk - 31
Matip - 30
Robertson - 28
Henderson - 31
Milner - 36
Thiago - 31
Fabinho - 28

The correct strategy is to find the right blend. Right now, I would argue our team lacks experience and is still fairly young which is why I'm all for bringing in players like Tarkowski and even Suarez. We just need to make sure that we bring in younger players, or train up our own younger players as back ups. If we sign Tarkowski and Bassey as an example. You've brought in a ready made centre half with excellent leadership and experience and an awesome prospect to challenge Mings and even displace him either this season or next. 

The Liverpool example shows something else as well, the possible danger of having a lot of key players basically the same age. They have been better than ever this season with the core of the team around 30 years. But those players have to be replaced sometime and worst case for them, it will happen in a short time frame (I’m looking forward to it)

[CarryOnVilla]

1 minute ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

The Liverpool example shows something else as well, the possible danger of having a lot of key players basically the same age. They have been better than ever this season with the core of the team around 30 years. But those players have to be replaced sometime and worst case for them, it will happen in a short time frame (I’m looking forward to it)

Some what like Fergie’s Manure before he jumped ship 

[Sulberto21]

Liverpool are also succession planning, Jota, Diaz , Konate and Carvalho. Excellent signings. 

[Philosopher]

24 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

Not sure where this idea, or fear even, of having a really old team is coming from. Looking at who we're linked to and probably want to sign based on the weight of speculation, I think this is absolutely fine...

(I'm rounding up based on next season)

Martinez - 29 (Will probably play at the top, top level until he is 34/35)
Cash - 25 (2/3 years away from his prime)
Mings - 29 (Fine)
Tarkowski - 30 (Fine)
Digne - 29 (Fine)
Kamara - 22 (Years away from his prime)
Bissouma - 26 (Coming into his prime)
Ramsey - 21 (Still a kid)
Coutinho - 30 (It's Coutinho)
Buendia - 25 (Still young)
Watkins - 26 (Primetime)

We don't have a single player that's over 31 years old in our starting line up. On top of that, defenders and players in general are playing well into their 30's these days. Players are looking to play past 33/34 whereas this tended to be the retirement age 5-10 years ago.

Comparing that to some of Liverpool's team as an example:

Mane - 30
Salah - 30
Van Dijk - 31
Matip - 30
Robertson - 28
Henderson - 31
Milner - 36
Thiago - 31
Fabinho - 28

The correct strategy is to find the right blend. Right now, I would argue our team lacks experience and is still fairly young which is why I'm all for bringing in players like Tarkowski and even Suarez. We just need to make sure that we bring in younger players, or train up our own younger players as back ups. If we sign Tarkowski and Bassey as an example. You've brought in a ready made centre half with excellent leadership and experience and an awesome prospect to challenge Mings and even displace him either this season or next. 



 

I agree with most of this. However I think the age debate is missing the point.

For me the priority is to get in the right quality. And the right qualities to compliment the teams style of play and formation. We also need to supplement the team with winners, and leaders.

Tarkowski and Suarez in terms of characters is exactly what we need. However the qualities Tarkowski brings I don't believe will fit in well with our style. In the case of Suarez I don't believe he has the legs anymore. I would welcome them if they came and look on the bright side (of which there are many), however I'm not convinced they are what we need on the pitch (outside of their characters).

[Vive_La_Villa]

34 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

Not sure where this idea, or fear even, of having a really old team is coming from. Looking at who we're linked to and probably want to sign based on the weight of speculation, I think this is absolutely fine...

(I'm rounding up based on next season)

Martinez - 29 (Will probably play at the top, top level until he is 34/35)
Cash - 25 (2/3 years away from his prime)
Mings - 29 (Fine)
Tarkowski - 30 (Fine)
Digne - 29 (Fine)
Kamara - 22 (Years away from his prime)
Bissouma - 26 (Coming into his prime)
Ramsey - 21 (Still a kid)
Coutinho - 30 (It's Coutinho)
Buendia - 25 (Still young)
Watkins - 26 (Primetime)

We don't have a single player that's over 31 years old in our starting line up. On top of that, defenders and players in general are playing well into their 30's these days. Players are looking to play past 33/34 whereas this tended to be the retirement age 5-10 years ago.

Comparing that to some of Liverpool's team as an example:

Mane - 30
Salah - 30
Van Dijk - 31
Matip - 30
Robertson - 28
Henderson - 31
Milner - 36
Thiago - 31
Fabinho - 28

The correct strategy is to find the right blend. Right now, I would argue our team lacks experience and is still fairly young which is why I'm all for bringing in players like Tarkowski and even Suarez. We just need to make sure that we bring in younger players, or train up our own younger players as back ups. If we sign Tarkowski and Bassey as an example. You've brought in a ready made centre half with excellent leadership and experience and an awesome prospect to challenge Mings and even displace him either this season or next. 



 

It’s ironic that at a time when players are probably fitter than they have ever been going in to their 30’s our fans seem to think they a couple of years from retirement at 28.

[Vive_La_Villa]

5 minutes ago, Sulberto21 said:

Liverpool are also succession planning, Jota, Diaz , Konate and Carvalho. Excellent signings. 

I think we’ll continue to do that. Kamara being a good example. 

[VillaParkAvenue]

7 minutes ago, Sulberto21 said:

Liverpool are also succession planning, Jota, Diaz , Konate and Carvalho. Excellent signings. 

True, they’ve been successful but will have more to do still.

[mottaloo]

As far as Suarez goes, we already have that type of player with Ings - imho. Would Suarez be happy to warm the bench ? If you paid him enough I reckon so.

Suarez of 7/8 years ago, yes please.

But now ? Nah. Let him go back to Holland for a last payday. 

[Philosopher]

24 minutes ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

That’s interesting but I’m curious. How do we know if someone in a group is a leader, without even hearing them speak and just watching them during games? Unless being a leader is mostly the same as being a good player who acts responsibly in games.

Not saying you’re wrong however, your ideas about who are and who aren’t leaders seem reasonable to me.

I’ve also seen the opinion on-pitch leadership isn’t as it used to be, when more teams are increasingly led from the touchline by a controlling manager. I guess that would relate to teams such as Guardiola’s Man City or Conte’s Spurs where the biggest star arguably is the manager, trying to dictate every little detail even during games.

Liverpool have VVD and Henderson as leaders. Then they have winners that set great examples, like Mane, Fabinho, and Robertson. I think you alway need a leader or two to organise and keep the focus. And winners that have the focus regardless, and just keep calm and plow on.

Man City won the title because their squad is the best and their style is also the best. Liverpool are on for the treble because they have the best mental strength and leadership out of the two top teams. In the cups it's who handles the pressure best. In the league it is who is consistently the better team.

 

[Philosopher]

28 minutes ago, HalfTimePost said:

We signed Richards (27) Lescott (33)Sinclair (26) Gestede (26) Gueye (25) that season too.

As well as Ayew (23) Traore (19) Amavi (21) Veretout (22) 

The quantity and quality was our issue. Not the mix of kids we signed.

We got the quality in the kids (but kids need time), but the seniors weren't good enough. Gueye was the only good senior. 

[duke313]

1 minute ago, mottaloo said:

As far as Suarez goes, we already have that type of player with Ings - imho. Would Suarez be happy to warm the bench ? If you paid him enough I reckon so.

Suarez of 7/8 years ago, yes please.

But now ? Nah. Let him go back to Holland for a last payday. 

Who goes to the Dutch league for a payday? The highest earner there is on about £60,000 a week.

[Zatman]

1 minute ago, duke313 said:

Who goes to the Dutch league for a payday? The highest earner there is on about £60,000 a week.

Wasn't Tadic on a 100k a week when he went to Ajax from Southampton 

Suarez wouldn't get ahead of Haller at the moment for Ajax. This is how far he has fallen