Steven Gerrard

[VillaHatesMe]

26 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

Is it wrong of me to say that part of me wants us to help Liverpool to win the title? At least partly because I like Gerrard and want to see him "make amends" for his slip years ago. The neutral in me would also like us to be part of a dramatic moment and historic moment.

Especially since the alternative is letting City win which is not only boring, it would allow Jack Grealish to win his first title by beating us. 

No, because helping Liverpool win a title means we've picked three points and possibly climbed two spots in the table.

[Laughable Chimp]

1 hour ago, VillaHatesMe said:

No, because helping Liverpool win a title means we've picked three points and possibly climbed two spots in the table.

Oh yeah, obviously the 3 points is the main reason. What I meant to say is that I want us to beat City for more than just the 3 points.

[lexicon]

4 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I mean, that all depends on what you want to extract from my post...

Your response is actually a great example of my reference to be honest.

You've made up something and run with it because it's probably been repeated so many times, even though it's non fact. Lol

The irony of accusing someone of that

Gerrard isn't performing as well as he should be IMO but he's not quite at the  'causing hundreds of thousands of avoidable deaths through gross negligence' stage, yet.

Edited May 20, 2022 by lexicon

[Anything11]

We have this attitude in the way we play that appears to be left over from Smith. We create great chances but fail to gain sufficient confidence to control games thereafter. Even with the possession today it felt like we were just playing around Burnley for the most part instead of through them (tactics contribute to this too). Smith was great and showed his tactical acumen (7-2) however his teams were more about quick transition which was balanced well with Jacks ability to control the tempo of the game and stifle the opposition.

It has changed on occasion since SG came in - where we have gone on a couple of runs where we have won a few games on the bounce. In these games we take the front foot and play like its ours to win. It is accompanied by general shithousery (timewasting)  and tough play (aggressive in the tackle, smart fouls) that has been nice to see but not around often enough.

I think this is what SG is trying to bring out of the team/players.

[sne]

His tenure so far is pretty much

[Tommo_b]

7 hours ago, nick76 said:

Genuine question, what do you see as the positives?  I’m seeing just as many negatives as I see positives.  

I’m less hopeful this end of season than the last few end of seasons. That’s not based on league positions but each end of season I’m hopeful next season we’ll progress more than the previous season, my current frame of mind I’m struggling to see us being better next season.  Adding better players will obviously give us more chance to improve but that’s unknown at the moment and I’m not seeing us get the best of current players who, most, will still be with us next season.

So keen on your thoughts because you are an honest poster.

League table since Gerrard took over has us 8th, behind the top 6 and Newcastle….

Be optimistic my man, there’s hope despite all the negativity on this forum.

[picicata]

34 minutes ago, Tommo_b said:

League table since Gerrard took over has us 8th, behind the top 6 and Newcastle….

Be optimistic my man, there’s hope despite all the negativity on this forum.

How come we only moved from 16th to 14th as a result? I don't remember us being that far adrift of the pack when we were 16th. Genuine question, not a criticism of Gerrard.

[WallisFrizz]

4 hours ago, Laughable Chimp said:

Is it wrong of me to say that part of me wants us to help Liverpool to win the title? At least partly because I like Gerrard and want to see him "make amends" for his slip years ago. The neutral in me would also like us to be part of a dramatic moment and historic moment.

Especially since the alternative is letting City win which is not only boring, it would allow Jack Grealish to win his first title by beating us. 

I feel the same but I’m trying not let the hope and expectation creep in.

[The Other Mat]

I've been pretty frustrated with him over the last couple of months but he's done pretty well considering. Going forward I hope hes more flexible with his system and primarily find a way to accommodate both Buendia and Coutinho in the starting XI. 

[DCJonah]

For everyone banging on about that table, there's a decent chance we will be 11th in it by the end of Sunday. 

And football doesn't work like that. You can't say he's 8th now so over a whole season we'd finish 8th. People used to do that shit with selective periods of Scott Hogan's goal scoring. 

I'd say it's pretty conclusive we will finish 14th. I doubt many predicted that when he came, I doubt our owners or even Gerrard thought we'd finish there when he came. I highly doubt sticking with Smith would have seen us finish much different. 

But there are positives. We know we are going to bring in big name signings and Gerrard is part of that. Mcginn has been overall a much better player with Gerrard. Digne looks quality and Cash has won player of the year under Gerrard. 

He's giving young kids a chance and Ramsay has had a break out season under him. 

I have my doubts still, I was hoping for more. I was hoping he'd really show us that we'll make huge strides next season. But he has to have more time and be allowed to sign more players. 

I do agree with the culture and the mentality needing to change. We haven't been fighting for Europe since MON. 

I'm excited about next season. 

 

 

[Tommo_b]

30 minutes ago, picicata said:

How come we only moved from 16th to 14th as a result? I don't remember us being that far adrift of the pack when we were 16th. Genuine question, not a criticism of Gerrard.

I’m guessing it’s because of mid table congestion, there’s only 6 points between 14th and 8th, super fine margins between those 6 league positions. For example if we had one more draw instead of a loss we would be in 11th right now. 

[HalfTimePost]

"Since Gerrard came in" also takes into consideration the 4/5 game 'New Manager Bounce' where we looked a completely different team from late-Smith but also a different team from what Gerrard has offered since.

If we go from January, we're 14th.

If we go from February (once he had a window), we're 13th.

We got what we deserved in terms of league standing.

[Tommo_b]

4 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I'd say it's pretty conclusive we will finish 14th. I doubt many predicted that when he came, I doubt our owners or even Gerrard thought we'd finish there when he came. I highly doubt sticking with Smith would have seen us finish much different. 

From Gerrard’s pre-Match conference I’d say it sounded like his remit when he came it was just to make sure we were safe this season, review it all at the end of the season and then rebuild it in the summer, it sounds like the board binned off their expectations for this season once they sacked Smith.

 

[Tommo_b]

5 minutes ago, HalfTimePost said:

"Since Gerrard came in" also takes into consideration the 4/5 game 'New Manager Bounce' where we looked a completely different team from late-Smith but also a different team from what Gerrard has offered since.

If we go from January, we're 14th.

If we go from February (once he had a window), we're 13th.

We got what we deserved in terms of league standing.

Plenty of managers have come in and not gotten this fabled “new manager bounce”, personally feel the first 6 games shouldn’t be discredited because of it. 

[Laughable Chimp]

20 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

For everyone banging on about that table, there's a decent chance we will be 11th in it by the end of Sunday. 

And football doesn't work like that. You can't say he's 8th now so over a whole season we'd finish 8th. People used to do that shit with selective periods of Scott Hogan's goal scoring. 

I'd say it's pretty conclusive we will finish 14th. I doubt many predicted that when he came, I doubt our owners or even Gerrard thought we'd finish there when he came. I highly doubt sticking with Smith would have seen us finish much different. 

But there are positives. We know we are going to bring in big name signings and Gerrard is part of that. Mcginn has been overall a much better player with Gerrard. Digne looks quality and Cash has won player of the year under Gerrard. 

He's giving young kids a chance and Ramsay has had a break out season under him. 

I have my doubts still, I was hoping for more. I was hoping he'd really show us that we'll make huge strides next season. But he has to have more time and be allowed to sign more players. 

I do agree with the culture and the mentality needing to change. We haven't been fighting for Europe since MON. 

I'm excited about next season. 

 

 

Of course we can't say we would've finished 8th conclusively if he had been given the entire season. But surely a table like this is more representative of how well he's performed for us than including the time under Smith as well?

 

Furthermore, its not like this is just a few games, the table literally constitutes most of the season so I do think it's pretty well indicative of whereabouts we would've finished under Gerrard entirely. Its not that selective.

You know what is far more selective though, the people who arbitrarily exclude our time under Gerrard in 2021 in order to make their point. Or the ones that only look at the reverse fixtures of the fixtures we played under Smith this season. Those are far more selective than this, which is pretty much the least selective way to look at Gerrard's performance for us so far.

 

Edited May 20, 2022 by Laughable Chimp

[duke313]

9 minutes ago, Tommo_b said:

Plenty of managers have come in and not gotten this fabled “new manager bounce”, personally feel the first 6 games shouldn’t be discredited because of it. 

Exactly, Lampard to name a recent one.
 

That’s exactly what it is, a fable, a myth. It’s just a way for people to explain when a new manager comes in and gets a few wins, but for every example of it happening, there is an example of it not happening.

[DCJonah]

4 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

Of course we can't say we would've finished 8th conclusively if he had been given the entire season. But surely a table like this is more representative of how well he's performed for us than including the time under Smith as well?

 

Furthermore, its not like this is just a few games, the table literally constitutes most of the season so I do think it's pretty well indicative of whereabouts we would've finished under Gerrard entirely. Its not that selective.

You know what is far more selective though, the people who arbitrarily exclude our time under Gerrard in 2021 in order to make their point. Or the ones that only look at the reverse fixtures of the fixtures we played under Smith this season. Those are far more selective than this, which is pretty much the least selective way to look at Gerrard's performance for us so far.

 

Agreed, people are always going to select certain stats to prove what they want. 

I'm not dismissive of what he's done by the way. I just don't buy into he's 8th in that table so we'd be 8th in a season. 

We potentially could be 12th in that table on Sunday and then the same people using it will suddenly never mention it. 

Gerrard has done an ok/decent job since coming in. Now we see if he can build on it. 

[Delphinho123]

34 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

For everyone banging on about that table, there's a decent chance we will be 11th in it by the end of Sunday. 

And football doesn't work like that. You can't say he's 8th now so over a whole season we'd finish 8th. People used to do that shit with selective periods of Scott Hogan's goal scoring. 

I'd say it's pretty conclusive we will finish 14th. I doubt many predicted that when he came, I doubt our owners or even Gerrard thought we'd finish there when he came. I highly doubt sticking with Smith would have seen us finish much different. 

But there are positives. We know we are going to bring in big name signings and Gerrard is part of that. Mcginn has been overall a much better player with Gerrard. Digne looks quality and Cash has won player of the year under Gerrard. 

He's giving young kids a chance and Ramsay has had a break out season under him. 

I have my doubts still, I was hoping for more. I was hoping he'd really show us that we'll make huge strides next season. But he has to have more time and be allowed to sign more players. 

I do agree with the culture and the mentality needing to change. We haven't been fighting for Europe since MON. 

I'm excited about next season. 

 

 

This. 

[VillaFaninLondon]

To go from 16th when he took on the job to 14th when the season finishes is really very little progress and you wonder whether the owners will keep faith in him if we don't start next season really well.

 

So many dropped points this season to poor or average teams, especially at home - Watford, Brentford, Palace, Burnley, Leeds. Gerrard was in charge for most of them. 

 

We dropped points to weaker teams under Smith last season too but at least we beat a lot of the better sides. Gerrard has taken a solitary point from the top 8 this season, in fact his record against the top 8 is: Played 9, Won 0, Drew 1, Lost 8. So his form against teams at both ends of the table doesn't read well. 

 

He really hasn't done a good job at all and is very lucky that he is now going to be backed financially in the summer given how mediocre results have been under him. 

[Don_Simon]

23 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

To go from 16th when he took on the job to 14th when the season finishes is really very little progress and you wonder whether the owners will keep faith in him if we don't start next season really well.

 

So many dropped points this season to poor or average teams, especially at home - Watford, Brentford, Palace, Burnley, Leeds. Gerrard was in charge for most of them. 

 

We dropped points to weaker teams under Smith last season too but at least we beat a lot of the better sides. Gerrard has taken a solitary point from the top 8 this season, in fact his record against the top 8 is: Played 9, Won 0, Drew 1, Lost 8. So his form against teams at both ends of the table doesn't read well. 

 

He really hasn't done a good job at all and is very lucky that he is now going to be backed financially in the summer given how mediocre results have been under him. 

This nails it for me. 

(And that solitary point was against a United side that both Brighton and Watford spanked).