CVByrne Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 To me it makes sense. Deano pay off won't be much as he has a year and a half left on contract. Time to bring in a manager who has plenty of experience. What he's done with Braga (getting them 4th and domestic cup). Shaktar (won everything) and Roma (5th and 7th) plus semi final of Europa League. He was top of list after Cone for Spurs role but didn't get it for tax reasons (no idea what this means exactly). He's a relatively young coach and learning still. He plays attacking football and is clearly more experienced than Dean Smith having won trophies, coached sides in European competitions for 5 years in a row. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steero113 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, thabucks said: Gallardo record is the best in Rivers history. Just sayin Fonseca record is the best in Shaktar's. So? Edited November 2, 2021 by Steero113 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 I think our current boss is likely to get up until Christmas to turn the current slump around, although losing the next three might well test the owners loyalty to him before that. That is 9 games which include Manchester City (h), Liverpool (a) & Chelsea (h), which will be very difficult to get anything from. I think Dean will need wins against Norwich (a) & Burnley (h) and a minimum of 11 points overall. The other mid degree of difficulty games (imo) are Southampton (a), Brighton (h), Palace (a) & Leicester (h). In the interim we will no doubt sound out the likes of Dyche, Potter & Howe, to see if they would be interested, along with a couple of more exotic sounding names no doubt, as well as the likes of Nuno, Gerrard, Lamps and JT...... For now, 5+ points from our next 3 games will lead to the "No vacancy" sign going up at B6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, Steero113 said: Fonseca record is the best in Shaktar's. So? They have both achieved success worth noting and praising at those clubs with no guarantee they will be repeated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 Random name suggestion to piss off leeds fans is Carlos Corberan currently at Huddersfield and a disciple of Bielsa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 His tactics and experience with 4 2 3 1, 4 3 3 and 3 4 3 means he would fit well with our current crop of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steero113 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, thabucks said: disciple of Bielsa. Villalad21 is that you? 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 5 minutes ago, John said: I think our current boss is likely to get up until Christmas to turn the current slump around, although losing the next three might well test the owners loyalty to him before that. That is 9 games which include Manchester City (h), Liverpool (a) & Chelsea (h), which will be very difficult to get anything from. I think Dean will need wins against Norwich (a) & Burnley (h) and a minimum of 11 points overall. The other mid degree of difficulty games (imo) are Southampton (a), Brighton (h), Palace (a) & Leicester (h). In the interim we will no doubt sound out the likes of Dyche, Potter & Howe, to see if they would be interested, along with a couple of more exotic sounding names no doubt, as well as the likes of Nuno, Gerrard, Lamps and JT...... For now, 5+ points from our next 3 games will lead to the "No vacancy" sign going up at B6. I think if they've made the decision not to extend his contract regardless of the current situation then it's best to pull trigger this season if they can get a coach they want in. He gets a free swing this season and then can plan where to make additions in summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 5 hours ago, sne said: ...and win % in the lower leagues should not be compared to % in the top flight IMO. It is what it is... I wasn't comparing anything yet people seem to want to have an argument about it. We already know the comparisons, we were there and we experienced it. All I said was Bruce had a good win percentage and the best since Taylor (mk.1). "Should not", really? Are you making rules now? 5 hours ago, TrentVilla said: If not comparing what relevance does it have to anything? It is in black and white but it needs to be viewed in context otherwise it is utterly misleading. I know the comparison as do we all, facts are the facts and Bruce sits higher on the list than most former Villa managers. Does he not deserve any praise or respect? Are we to be hyper dismissive about it because it was the Championship? That run and win percentage got us to the Play-off final after all... If we want to compare Smith, Bruce and Taylor all managed Villa in the Championship yet Smith has the poorest win percentage. That was the essence of my point. There is nothing misleading about it, we all know it was in the Championship. Premier League is superior to practically every other league in Europe are we to dismiss other win percentages because it isn't PL. The Championship is a very competitive league and better than many European top flight leagues, I don't understand why many are so quick to dismiss it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 I've done a fair bit of browsing through articles about Graham Potter since realising that Dean Smith has probably taken us as far as he can. I've been impressed with what I've read about GP, as well as what I've seen with my own eyes when Brighton are televised. He's intelligent, resourceful, and is described as being "tactically fluid" in terms of setting up for different types of opposition. An ex player described him as "the man with a plan for every game we play". He's also a very astute man manager with good leadership skills. Brighton won't want to lose him, but I think he's gettable. He may feel a strong loyalty to his current team, but if you look at recent 'PL managers pay league tables' you'll see that he's on about one million pounds per year. To put that in perspective Frank Lampard was supposedly being paid eight million pounds per year during his short time at Chelsea. A similar (highly paid) three year package at AVFC would set GP and his young family up for life, and has to be within NSWE's remit if they are serious about their future plans. That should be enough to overcome any qualms he may have about his loyalty to his current employer, as family security surely takes precedence if he's offered a once in a lifetime opportunity. When I say "once in a lifetime opportunity" I'm thinking about the fact that he has got Brighton over achieving currently and when their form and position inevitably drops off due to injuries, squad strength etc. Potter's star may dim in the same way that Eddie Howe's did at Bournemouth. As for immediate relocation GP was born in Solihull so he could return to live in the area with very little adjustment. Dean may survive this horrible dip in form and footballing confidence, but if he doesn't I think Graham Potter would be an almost seamless new manager choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 Potter has had a quarter of a good season. Other clubs could have been talking up Smith about a year ago. Not for me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post villa89 Posted November 2, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted November 2, 2021 6 minutes ago, Zhan_Zhuang said: I know the comparison as do we all, facts are the facts and Bruce sits higher on the list than most former Villa managers. Does he not deserve any praise or respect? No, He deserves a cabbage in the face. 4 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 Just now, The Fun Factory said: Potter has had a quarter of a good season. Other clubs could have been talking up Smith about a year ago. Not for me. Potter currently winless in his last 6 games. If we want the latest "fad" manager why not just get Eddie Howe back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted November 2, 2021 Moderator Share Posted November 2, 2021 This thread is about the recent speculation linking Paulo Fonseca with us. If you'd like to judge the relative merits of other managers from around the world, please start a thread in other football. Thank you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted November 2, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted November 2, 2021 When Roma were good with him they were very good but they lost a lot of key games with him. They got spanked a few times too. He can put together a good 4-2-3-1 / 4-3-3 I'm not convinced he's a better coach than Smith though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 2, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted November 2, 2021 This wouldn't be the first time we've sounded out a replacement for Smith... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 I don't know anything about Fonseca - and having read this thread I honestly feel like I know even less. General opinion seems to be he's pretty rubbish, then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMitch Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 28 minutes ago, abdulaziz1 said: Smith mistakes are from his fear. He tries something, if it works, he keep it until it fails, but he keeps failing for weeks to understand. He isn’t a bad manager, but he needs to be more dynamic and act quickly. This is "results-oriented thinking" and it's the exact opposite of how we need a manager to think... Let me put it into perspective for you... Lets say you and I play a game where we flip a coin and if it lands heads, I pay you $200 and if it lands tails, you pay me $100. If we play for 100 games, statistically, you'd be up $10,000 and the odds clearly favor you... but what happens if you lose the first 5 games we play? Your risk aversion/loss prevention response kicks in and a lot of people would refuse to play the game any further because they lost previously when they tried it and would like to avoid losing again, even though statistically playing again favors you. Bad beats happen, even though the rules favor you. Same thing applies to bad decisions which happen to pay off through luck. Let's look at another scenario where we roll a 6 sided die. Option 1, if you roll a 1-5, you win $100, but if you roll a 6, you owe me $50. Option 2 is if you roll a 1-5, you pay me $1000, but if you hit a 6, you win $2000. You pick Option 2, which is clearly the wrong choice statistically for you, but you hit a 6 and win big. Are you a genius because you won by making a bad decision? No, you're clearly lucky and over time things will not work out in your favor picking Option 2 over and over again. This is why casinos consistently make a lot of money and people who have gambling habits are always broke. When applied to football, just looking at results when it comes to decision making is a terrible way of looking at things. There are a bunch of KPIs (Key Performance Indicators) our backroom staff and analytics team look at every game and in every training session for each of our players and how our team performs. It's absolutely amazing to see the kind of stuff data analytics teams do in sports today. The problem is that the parameters of a dynamic game, like football, aren't as cut and dry as other games (like my coin flip/die examples above). How many times have you seen a team playing very well, only to lose a the game to a fluke goal? What about a big, expensive team barely beating a team with a fraction of their budget? What about a player who somehow manages to score 20 goals in one season, only to struggle to score 8 a season the rest of his career? The real art to this is that it takes time and lots of data to figure out if something is working consistently or not. If the manager chopped and changed the formation/line up/style of play every single time we lost a match, it would be impossible to figure out whether or not we're making progress week in and week out, or our results are down to just luck. Here is a counter to your example: We pulled out the 532 formation for the first time against Chelsea and we played very well, but still lost... By your logic, he should have done something else against Man United because we lost and it "takes too long for him to understand", but he stuck with it because the KPIs our backroom staff values showed favorably, despite the result against Chelsea. It paid off and we won at Man United, and played it again against Spurs. We lost that one and didn't play particularly well, but it was the first game with the formation where we didn't perform well, so they tried to tweak some things for the Wolves match. We blew a 2-1 lead from some individual errors, despite playing ok for most of the game. We went again against Arsenal and they ripped us apart. We didn't see enough progress in our KPIs over the past 3 games, so they changed back to a 433... Despite the result, we played better before the red card and there is more there for us to build upon going forward playing 433. My point is, hindsight is 20:20. It's easy to sit there and say he makes bad decisions over and over and over again and needs to chop and change things more quickly. If we didn't have a late game collapse against Wolves, or let in two very long range/low probablity efforts against West Ham combined with a soft red card, we'd be having a different conversation right now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steero113 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, KMitch said: This is "results-oriented thinking" and it's the exact opposite of how we need a manager to think... Let me put it into perspective for you... Lets say you and I play a game where we flip a coin and if it lands heads, I pay you $200 and if it lands tails, you pay me $100. If we play for 100 games, statistically, you'd be up $10,000 and the odds clearly favor you... but what happens if you lose the first 5 games we play? Your risk aversion/loss prevention response kicks in and a lot of people would refuse to play the game any further because they lost previously when they tried it and would like to avoid losing again, even though statistically playing again favors you. Bad beats happen, even though the rules favor you. Same thing applies to bad decisions which happen to pay off through luck. Let's look at another scenario where we roll a 6 sided die. Option 1, if you roll a 1-5, you win $100, but if you roll a 6, you owe me $50. Option 2 is if you roll a 1-5, you pay me $1000, but if you hit a 6, you win $2000. You pick Option 2, which is clearly the wrong choice statistically for you, but you hit a 6 and win big. Are you a genius because you won by making a bad decision? No, you're clearly lucky and over time things will not work out in your favor picking Option 2 over and over again. This is why casinos consistently make a lot of money and people who have gambling habits are always broke. When applied to football, just looking at results when it comes to decision making is a terrible way of looking at things. There are a bunch of KPIs (Key Performance Indicators) our backroom staff and analytics team look at every game and in every training session for each of our players and how our team performs. It's absolutely amazing to see the kind of stuff data analytics teams do in sports today. The problem is that the parameters of a dynamic game, like football, aren't as cut and dry as other games (like my coin flip/die examples above). How many times have you seen a team playing very well, only to lose a the game to a fluke goal? What about a big, expensive team barely beating a team with a fraction of their budget? What about a player who somehow manages to score 20 goals in one season, only to struggle to score 8 a season the rest of his career? The real art to this is that it takes time and lots of data to figure out if something is working consistently or not. If the manager chopped and changed the formation/line up/style of play every single time we lost a match, it would be impossible to figure out whether or not we're making progress week in and week out, or our results are down to just luck. Here is a counter to your example: We pulled out the 532 formation for the first time against Chelsea and we played very well, but still lost... By your logic, he should have done something else against Man United because we lost and it "takes too long for him to understand", but he stuck with it because the KPIs our backroom staff values showed favorably, despite the result against Chelsea. It paid off and we won at Man United, and played it again against Spurs. We lost that one and didn't play particularly well, but it was the first game with the formation where we didn't perform well, so they tried to tweak some things for the Wolves match. We blew a 2-1 lead from some individual errors, despite playing ok for most of the game. We went again against Arsenal and they ripped us apart. We didn't see enough progress in our KPIs over the past 3 games, so they changed back to a 433... Despite the result, we played better before the red card and there is more there for us to build upon going forward playing 433. My point is, hindsight is 20:20. It's easy to sit there and say he makes bad decisions over and over and over again and needs to chop and change things more quickly. If we didn't have a late game collapse against Wolves, or let in two very long range/low probablity efforts against West Ham combined with a soft red card, we'd be having a different conversation right now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post hippo Posted November 2, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted November 2, 2021 I think we are limiting ourselves by only looking at managers on earth. About time we cast the search a little bit beyond that 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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