Team shape, tactics and personnel

[paul514]

19 hours ago, chappy said:

I thought Ramsey was actually one of our best players on the pitch yesterday. Think cameos off the bench are probably the best way to ease Carney in to PL football.

I’m not saying he played badly, he scored a perfectly good goal.

I just think he will develop into an average premier league player, which is fine he is free after all and an average player costs a fortune these days.

Carney might be better than that and JPB I’m not sure on his potential but it doesn’t look to be low and he needs minutes as a wide player, which will become more difficult when Bailey is back.

[paul514]

10 minutes ago, Aston_Villan4 said:

Targett or Cash?

We definitely need better fullbacks for where we want to be, they are good for where we are now though.

[Aston_Villan4]

11 minutes ago, paul514 said:

We definitely need better fullbacks for where we want to be, they are good for where we are now though.

 You think Cash has maxed out on ability?

Edited December 7, 2021 by Aston_Villan4

[Spoony]

How can replacing Cash or Targett at all be a priority. They’ve both been class under Gerrard and are both so young. Let them learn and flourish for a bit then we can see. 

[Phil Silvers]

I hope and think Gerrard might be able to improve both Cash and Targett to another level, but I can sympathize with those that want them upgraded too, neither of them make it look easy, more cultured and intelligent combined players with their type of effort is what we need, hope it's them but to get to the next level I'm not fussed, they are just tools to get the job done.

I can see Gerrard wanting a Stevie Gerrard in the middle, someone of a standard above what we have or what they could ever be, I expect him to spend biggest on the new SG.

[Kiwivillan]

Cash made 9 tackles 5 interceptions and 3 clearances vs Leicester. 9 tackles in a single game is nuts( next best was Leicester player with 5 which is a lot for a game). People want him shipped out? 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Kiwivillan

[Vive_La_Villa]

Both Cash and Targett need competition for their places. At the moment they both play as there’s nobody else. (Ashley Young won’t play every game). 

[The Rosk]

Cash had a great game.  A few wayward crosses aside, he's got energy for days and after a shaky start he handled Barnes extremely well.  He's only just 24 too - definitely not in need of a big upgrade here compared to other areas of the pitch.  I also think Guilbert could do very well under Gerrard but bringing him back in a bit-part role could be beyond us now.

Nakamba has been excellent - I think the a major reason for this is because he isn't trying to do anything stupid.  He isn't a big passer, but his role has excelled under the Gerrard philosophy of Villa players being always within 10metres of each other, keeping things very simple and being a warrior when we don't have the ball.  As long as we don't stretch his capabilities he'll continue to do well.  

I enjoy Gerrard clearly taking no prisoners and being respectful - he's handled every interview with class and it's going to be interesting how he handles our first losses to non-Top 3 sides.

[HalfTimePost]

I like both Cash and Targett. But if we really are going to be using them as the main width in our offence they'll need improving upon. But no time soon, we'd need to improve massively elsewhere first for that to become a real priority.

But. Some of Cash's crossing was gash midweek and Targett hasn't quite found the link up with anybody else that he had with Grealish. So I can understand why it's being discussed.

Targett needs competition, his form can come and go much more easily than Cash and therefore we need someone to keep him on his toes rather than outright replace him.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

7 hours ago, Aston_Villan4 said:

Targett or Cash?

Targett.

 

[HalfTimePost]

And then for how and when we improve our wingbacks, for me the challenge is CB and Midfield;

All too often both Cash and Targett have had to make many last ditch tackles or blocks. Which is fine. They do it well. But if we want them to be these marauding Wing Backs then Tyrone, Ezri and Nakamba are going to have to be able to be much more in control on the counter attack.

The likes of Cancelo, Trent and ( it was a while ago in a different formation) but even when Victor Moses had that season under Conte where he looked a world beater at wingback - they leave gaps down their flank. Some of the best seasons from these attacking Fullbacks are going to be risky for the counter

At the minute as much as I love Ezri and Tyrone and as much improved as Nakmba is - I wouldn't trust them to be able to consistently make up for the amount of bodies-on-the-line stuff the two Matts have had to do at times. 

We need to address it for when Kesler Hayden breaks through because he is every bit the marauding Wing back - and he'll be inexperienced and young to boot. But for me we should be looking to challenge and push that spine first before we look to spend £30m+ on a first choice wingback.

Alternatively, where we saw Dougie and McGinn cover the RB/LB spots at times to allow the wingbacks to get up and allow them to block the counter - that could work, but our midfield should also be linking further forward.

So a tough one. As they need improving upon to get where we want to get to...but we have bigger things to fix in my opinion to allow them to do what we want them to do. I think replacements for Hause and Axel that can really challenge Mings & a true leader in midfield are more worthwhile than spending £40m on Tierney (or similar)

Edited December 7, 2021 by HalfTimePost

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

6 hours ago, Spoony said:

How can replacing Cash or Targett at all be a priority. They’ve both been class under Gerrard and are both so young. Let them learn and flourish for a bit then we can see. 

At minimum, they need competition and/or understudies though.

They basically have none.

Either of them get injured, our gameplay is massively disrupted IMO.

Ash can fill in, but that's not a long term option.

[HalfTimePost]

4 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

At minimum, they need competition and/or understudies though.

They basically have none.

Either of them get injured, our gameplay is massively disrupted IMO.

Ash can fill in, but that's not a long term option.

This is agree with. I never understand our desire to send Guilbert away. Axel/Ezri can cover RB but we'll never do that because they can't attack the way we want to. Young I suppose can replace Targett but not for multiple games in a row for 90mins each.

I'd definitely like a LB, we need one. I just don't think we should be breaking the bank on one. RB realistically we don't have gaps in the squad for as 3 can cover it and 2 on loan. We just need to assess the loanees at the end of the season

[HalfTimePost]

1 hour ago, HalfTimePost said:

And then for how and when we improve our wingbacks, for me the challenge is CB and Midfield;

All too often both Cash and Targett have had to make many last ditch tackles or blocks. Which is fine. They do it well. But if we want them to be these marauding Wing Backs then Tyrone, Ezri and Nakamba are going to have to be able to be much more in control on the counter attack.

The likes of Cancelo, Trent and ( it was a while ago in a different formation) but even when Victor Moses had that season under Conte where he looked a world beater at wingback - they leave gaps down their flank. Some of the best seasons from these attacking Fullbacks are going to be risky for the counter

At the minute as much as I love Ezri and Tyrone and as much improved as Nakmba is - I wouldn't trust them to be able to consistently make up for the amount of bodies-on-the-line stuff the two Matts have had to do at times. 

We need to address it for when Kesler Hayden breaks through because he is every bit the marauding Wing back - and he'll be inexperienced and young to boot. But for me we should be looking to challenge and push that spine first before we look to spend £30m+ on a first choice wingback.

Alternatively, where we saw Dougie and McGinn cover the RB/LB spots at times to allow the wingbacks to get up and allow them to block the counter - that could work, but our midfield should also be linking further forward.

So a tough one. As they need improving upon to get where we want to get to...but we have bigger things to fix in my opinion to allow them to do what we want them to do. I think replacements for Hause and Axel that can really challenge Mings & a true leader in midfield are more worthwhile than spending £40m on Tierney (or similar)

Reportedly Gerrard agrees with me.

Stevie, I'm available for the low low price of £60k a year if you're interested.

 

[Spoony]

6 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

At minimum, they need competition and/or understudies though.

They basically have none.

Either of them get injured, our gameplay is massively disrupted IMO.

Ash can fill in, but that's not a long term option.

Fair enough. I don’t like the idea of “replacing”. I agree with you they need competition that’s at least as good or better, but I don’t see that as replacing they just need to fight for positions. The issue we have at our current level is Cash and Targett are too good to just sit on the bench. They walk into every other team in the bottom half of the table. 

[TRO]

On 06/12/2021 at 16:32, kingysilvers said:

I never really buy the coach being too nice type arguments. Whenever a new manager comes into a club you hear about levels and fitness going up but I think that simply because everyone, be it players or staff get comfortable after a couple of years. Everyone has heard that coaches speel umpteen times and knows what will keep that coaching staff happy with their performance levels. I think this is the real reason most coaches last a couple of years in a job and unless Gerrard is the next Ferguson then the cycle will continue.

 

I do, but it depends what is meant by that, depends on the context.....you can be a driver and still get on with the players, but no one likes hard work, for hard work sake....if you can show a player the rewards i.e winning...He will accept the hard work for the trade off of the adulation he will get from the fans and media.....Ferguson managed to drive his team hard for years, with no animosity, because it was a winning combination...Shankly/Paisley did the same....so did Sir Ron...Its not rocket science hard work is central to intensity and movement, which subsequently brings success.

The top teams in the Prem are easily identifiable by their talent.....but study their workrate too and its easy to see, why they are, where they are....there are no short cuts or easy ways, it must be hard in training and it takes certain types of person/leader, to get that out of them, they have to believe.

 The last manager said " A team mirrors the manager" and he would be right....It couldn't be put more succinctly.

It is fair to say, players can get used to the same voice and there are only so many things to say before it becomes repetitive/Tedious.....but if the "demand" becomes the norm, the players build it in to their syche, so the demand becomes more intrinsic. Its not lost on me, SG wants to limit his personal involvement at some stage, so his presence is fresh and important and his direct involvement will have meaning as opposed to just routine.....you can't always run with the pack, if you are a leader, you have to stay aloof, to a degree....that way your presence is felt more.

I think SG is well aware of all this.

The best players create their own demand, it becomes the culture, that to a degree, is whats happened at Liverpool and City.....so the demand direct from the manager, is just topped up and reminded, now and again...but that is someway down the line....That helps to preserve longevity of his leadership.

Also, when players then slip, in their standards, consistently, they get challenged or replaced......Ruthless, it might be, but that's the pathway to success, that's what is required if we want to avoid, the  win one, draw one, lose one mentality.

 

 

[blandy]

19 minutes ago, TRO said:

if the "demand" becomes the norm, the players build it in to their psyche, so the demand becomes more intrinsic.

This definitely. Spot on @TRO.The manager needs to set out the standards and then it should be (and is, in all good teams) the players, particularly senior players, who hold their colleagues to those standards and set the example. It cannot be the manager constantly banging on about it.

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, blandy said:

This definitely. Spot on @TRO.The manager needs to set out the standards and then it should be (and is, in all good teams) the players, particularly senior players, who hold their colleagues to those standards and set the example. It cannot be the manager constantly banging on about it.

SG made a point of this Pete, when speaking to Jamie Carragher at BMH....He is well aware of the shelf life of his own voice and I guess will manage that accordingly...He has also mooted about his awareness of not being open to comments as much, as he is at present, moving forward...Its all new right now, so its inevitable, but staying aloof to a degree is paramount for longevity too.

I know, its difficult with the demands of the modern media, but its good he is aware.....as I'm sure you are aware, Ron Saunders was a man of few words in public.....I think our owners are superb with keeping their own counsel.

as you say, once the standards are set, the momentum carries it on.....i.e Once the fire is started, it only needs the odd bellows.

 

[paul514]

15 hours ago, Aston_Villan4 said:

 You think Cash has maxed out on ability?

Not really it’s just to make it into the elite group you need, elite full backs with the formation we play.

[hippo]

On 29/11/2021 at 13:48, lexicon said:

I’ve been thinking a lot about the last couple of weeks and wanted to put my thoughts into words, so here goes.

My first reaction to Smith’s sacking was one of sadness. He was possibly the best manager I’ve seen us have and oversaw us turning into a team that could actually play technically for a change. Good Villa sides of the last 25-ish years had always been teams that were hard to break down and could counter well - not the sort of team that would unlock defences with great passes or wizardly ball control. 

When he went, I thought he was hard-done-by and would have been able to turn us around given enough time and I still think it was a possibility. However, there was a lot of talk about him taking us as far he could, that is to the mid-table position we’d finished in the season before. Smith had always wanted to learn and improve, but in order for us to move forward as a unit, we were perhaps a little beholden on waiting around for him to do so. Not such a bad thing but not ideal either. 

So onto Gerrard. 

Obviously, I was aghast at the thought of us tearing up what we had and starting afresh with a new manager who had little relevant experience to speak of IMO, because I don’t rate the Scottish league at all. However, that wasn’t the plan and I can see that now.

The whole point of going for someone who had success with a system very similar to us was not to replace but to refine. I’ve read a lot of people talk about how we’ve got a different system now and I can’t say that I agree with it, certainly not as things stand. The difference I see is that with a fresh perspective has come new ideas and perspectives for the players. They’re not playing drastically differently from under Smith (when things were going well) but they are trying new things which have been brought by the new team. There’s also a reason that we haven’t changed our coaching staff entirely and kept on several of them. 

This appointment is basically continuing the work that NSWE started when they took over and developing the playing style and philosophy accordingly. Purslow felt it was time to take the plunge and get some fresh ideas in, and I almost certainly think that it’s proving to be the right decision.

In any case, Smith deserves a huge amount of respect and gratitude for helping us to develop to the point that we did. We had some great times under his leadership and the players and style came on immensely when you consider the standard of football and professionalism we’d seen prior to his tenure. It was, however, time to take the next step. 

All in all, I  think that we’re incredibly lucky to have the owners we do and I do trust Purslow’s judgement, despite having reservations at the time. Onwards and upwards.
 

Seriously ? - all about opinions but I think we are playing quite a different format under Gerrard. Bailey looks like the only wide player we will use. With the attacking threat coming from wing backs (either existing or replacements).

Gerrard also said we have to be more compact when we have the lead. Where as Smith always wanted to push on , his famous quote "not only win the current match but put fear into the opposition for the next match"

We seem much more defensive under SG - no problem with that. You won't get anywhere conceding goals.

I can't agree the SG style is similar to DS though.