Team shape, tactics and personnel

[tonyh29]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

and LB as a priority

I keep seeing this and of course its all about opinions , but for me we need a RB more urgently than we need a LB  , Cash has a good engine and bombs down the wing a lot which seems to suit Gerrard's style , but he cant cross and he's quite weak at defending if players are allowed to run at him with the ball and his positioning is often quite poor 

 

 

[Phil Silvers]

7 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

I keep seeing this and of course its all about opinions , but for me we need a RB more urgently than we need a LB  , Cash has a good engine and bombs down the wing a lot which seems to suit Gerrard's style , but he cant cross and he's quite weak at defending if players are allowed to run at him with the ball and his positioning is often quite poor 

 

 

We need both, we that adaptability or the smart managers will set up to funnel us down the wrong side and dominate us elsewhere, we did it to Liverpool in the 7-2.

[CVByrne]

We have 2 Prem games in the next 5 weeks and an FA Cup game. There's an 18 day gap between the Everton and Leeds games. 

I hope we can get a signing done and plenty of work on the training pitch. A behind closed doors game possibly too? 

We have two games to be rearranged Burnley and Leeds, plus a run of Everton, Leeds, Newcastle, Watford, Brighton, Southampton. 

Leeds are away to West Ham in the cup and we are to United. So we could replay our fixture in early Feb if we are both knocked out. 

This run of games is what defines our season, need to see improvement.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

I keep seeing this and of course its all about opinions , but for me we need a RB more urgently than we need a LB  , Cash has a good engine and bombs down the wing a lot which seems to suit Gerrard's style , but he cant cross and he's quite weak at defending if players are allowed to run at him with the ball and his positioning is often quite poor 

 

 

don't disagree.

[TRO]

On 03/01/2022 at 12:49, sne said:

The system he used at Rangers had 35 y.o, 5ft 7 behemoth Steven Davis playing in the sitting midfield position playing as DLP. 

Wouldn't work in the PL of course but maybe he won't be using a defensive anchorman in that role but rather a more rounded player who can build up play from the back?

The type of quality we want, would be expected to build up play from the back, anyway.....look around the Premier league, that's what they do.

The Whelan, Jedinak , (limited players), days are over.......that is not what we the CDM requiree's are after......its just a false narrative concocted by DLP fans.

[sne]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

The type of quality we want, would be expected to build up play from the back, anyway.....look around the Premier league, that's what they do.

The Whelan, Jedinak , (limited players), days are over.......that is not what we the CDM requiree's are after......its just a false narrative concocted by DLP fans.

As you have confessed to not understand this role and also said that tactics are overrated maybe we should just agree to disagree on this whole subject.

Up until the Euro's and the Italy display the Jedinak type was exactly the type you were asking for. I've been arguing mobility vs height with you for years. Big un beats a small un and what not.

Anyway i'm sure we both want as good, as dynamic and as versatile a player as possible for the midfield role.

[TRO]

8 hours ago, sne said:

As you have confessed to not understand this role and also said that tactics are overrated maybe we should just agree to disagree on this whole subject.

Up until the Euro's and the Italy display the Jedinak type was exactly the type you were asking for. I've been arguing mobility vs height with you for years. Big un beats a small un and what not.

Anyway i'm sure we both want as good, as dynamic and as versatile a player as possible for the midfield role.

When I say, I don't understand it, I think you have conveniently taken that comment, out of context.....I don't understand the thinking behind it and I don't agree with it as a system, albeit accept some coaches do.

Yes we have been debating about height and power, and Lukaku, clearly demonstrated the difficulty in dealing with it, when an attacker has it......There is an eloquent explanation here https://blog.whereisfootball.com/post/35065803281/the-pirlo-mascherano-and-makelele-an-insight.....where the various versions of the No 6 role.....Destroyer-DLP-Volante....are well explained.

"Jedinak Type", type being the operative word, you have failed to pick up on.....I am asking for a powerful midfielder with guile and ability on the ball, like Viera and Keane had......you are just illustrating limited versions of what, I am really seeking.

I want to win football matches and accept that takes different approaches to succeed....but the fundaments of the game are simple.

• When you have the ball, score a goal
• When they have the ball stop them from scoring a goal.

Folk/coaches have their own ideas of the best way to do it......I equally have mine.

above is Kaleidocope of explanations of what a No 6 role is....or could be.

Edited January 5, 2022 by TRO

[sne]

Again, I'd be delighted if we can find a complete player like Viera was, no arguing there.

[TRO]

7 hours ago, sne said:

Again, I'd be delighted if we can find a complete player like Viera was, no arguing there.

but surely, if you can't.....you get the next best thing......its about targets and pushing the boundaries.

Leicester have Ndidi, Brighton have Bissouma......these clubs have made it their business to find them.

If we want them bad enough we will find them.

Edited January 5, 2022 by TRO

[M_Afro]

6 hours ago, TRO said:

but surely, if you can't.....you get the next best thing......its about targets and pushing the boundaries.

Leicester have Ndidi, Brighton have Bissouma......these clubs have made it their business to find them.

If we want them bad enough we will find them.

I agree. We have needed an athletic and combative number 6 for years. For some reason it has never been prioritised. Every transfer window I wait for the signing and it never happens! We have got wingers coming out of our ears but this key role has been ignored for too long.

[sne]

Ndidi is great, Leicester had just won the league the season before they signed him and were competing in the CL.

Bissouma is great too, apart from his off field behavior. Thou he's play almost twice as many games as CM as he has as DCM for Brighton according to Transfermarkt as they've used Pröpper, Lallana, Gross, Alzate and others in the more sitting role. Great mobility and would be more suited to one of the 8's role IMO like the system Gerrard used at Rangers.

A lot of the players suggested for the DCM role in the last few years have not really really been DCM's, they had other traits in common thou. Bissouma, Sander Berge, Billing, McTomminay, Tuanzebe...

And then there are the ones the club has actively tried, and failed to sign in Rice, Phillips and Ward-Prowse. Very different players that we supposedly didn't want enough.

[Awol]

9 hours ago, TRO said:

but surely, if you can't.....you get the next best thing......its about targets and pushing the boundaries.

Leicester have Ndidi, Brighton have Bissouma......these clubs have made it their business to find them.

If we want them bad enough we will find them.

We’ve been linked to them but not followed through, Cheick Doucoure at Lens being the most recent example last summer. I don’t get why it hasn’t  happened. 

[TRO]

5 hours ago, M_Afro said:

I agree. We have needed an athletic and combative number 6 for years. For some reason it has never been prioritised. Every transfer window I wait for the signing and it never happens! We have got wingers coming out of our ears but this key role has been ignored for too long.

I am flabbergasted as to why?

and to say for "Years" is an indictment on the club.

We seem to be obsessed with talent and show ponies.....of course we need creative players, but need players to help us control a game too.....for too long we have relied on odd moments and flashes of brilliance to bring the bacon home.

We will never get in to Europe with that approach......you need consistent results to do that and that means consistent play.

There is no other dedicated position, we would ignore, in the same way  like the No 6......and to play offensive minded players there is sacrosanct, becuase we lose their talent further up field.

I do hope SG breaks the mould and fixes it.

Ps and as for wingers, I think we breed them....and still we don't have one, who can go around the outside and cause problems......maybe Bailey, if we ever see him on a regular basis.

Edited January 5, 2022 by TRO

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Awol said:

We’ve been linked to them but not followed through, Cheick Doucoure at Lens being the most recent example last summer. I don’t get why it hasn’t  happened. 

I do confess, I am no football scout and don't profess to know all the talent spread across Europe......but surely we can get a dominating/dedicated, No 6.....(Destroyer& DLP rolled in to one)

Edited January 5, 2022 by TRO

[villalad21]

12 minutes ago, TRO said:

I do confess, I am no football scout and don't profess to know all the talent spread across Europe......but surely we can get a dominating/dedicated, No 6.....(Destroyer& DLP rolled in to one)

Exactly. 

Just a better version of Nakamba basically. 

Surely such player exist somewhere..

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

13 minutes ago, TRO said:

and still we don't have one, who can go around the outside and cause problems.

Great point,  we hardly ever get to the line to cross,  I always get the feeling from football the closer to the line you cross the higher the chances of getting something out of it (Corner , handball, chance, goalie error etc).

The angled ball in from around the corner of the box needs to be perfect,  if not,  goes for goal kick etc.  A lot easier to defend against also (Offside etc).

A little bit of the best these 3.  Maybe its memory but Morley did it once or twice a game minimum I am sure of it ?
T. Morley / T.Daley (With added breaking)  / Mark Walters) 

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

1 minute ago, villalad21 said:

Exactly. 

Just a better version of Nakamba basically. 

Surely such player exist somewhere..

Maybe he has a Fantastic brother or something.

[OutByEaster?]

34 minutes ago, TRO said:

Ps and as for wingers, I think we breed them....and still we don't have one, who can go around the outside and cause problems......maybe Bailey, if we ever see him on a regular basis.

That's the job of Cash and Targett in this system - I can't see us going looking for a winger.

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

1 minute ago, OutByEaster? said:

That's the job of Cash and Targett in this system

I would say they are only as good as who they play up there with and the understanding and ultimately chances they create.  Targett looked a lot better with Jack for example,  now I am not so sure as an example.

[TRO]

53 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

That's the job of Cash and Targett in this system - I can't see us going looking for a winger.

Yeah

Hallelujah!! to the highlighted bit.

1 hour ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

Great point,  we hardly ever get to the line to cross,  I always get the feeling from football the closer to the line you cross the higher the chances of getting something out of it (Corner , handball, chance, goalie error etc).

The angled ball in from around the corner of the box needs to be perfect,  if not,  goes for goal kick etc.  A lot easier to defend against also (Offside etc).

A little bit of the best these 3.  Maybe its memory but Morley did it once or twice a game minimum I am sure of it ?
T. Morley / T.Daley (With added breaking)  / Mark Walters) 

Morley was a really effective winger, in the Harvey Barnes Mould.