DCJonah Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 I want our quality wide players to be our threat out wide. Not two fullbacks. We have Traore, Buendia and Bailey who have all succeeded as out and out wide players. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 6 hours ago, TRO said: No it doesn't....but equally, its doesn't make you a bad one either. SG has been with us for 3 months....and in my view has an imbalanced squad to juggle with. I am not saying he is without criticism, but with such an imbalance, mistakes are inevitable. I am not sure what your overall point is in the first 3 lines, but the players you say are good enough, got Dean the sack and he had 3 years with them. The players might be good enough, but not together.....this is a collective issue, where certain things required during a game are not being done adequately......when that happens and the opposition are aware, you become vulnerable. Make no mistake here.....We was like this under Dean Smith, for large periods of his tenure.....and it caught up with him, to a point he didn't know what to do, to cure it. So lets be a bit patient with a relatively young manager, who is trying to get to grips with it.....we all have our theories on what could be wrong, but he has to be the one, with the responsibilty. To harp on about the "Great Player" syndrome is cheap and unhelpful......many great players have been good managers, Pep was no slouch or Conte, Ancellotti had a decent playing career too....Zinnedine Zidane has done both to an elite level. The problems SG is experiencing with us, has been with us for some time, which makes the situation all the more frustrating, because we all thought, he could change it after the impressive start. Same players, same manager.....so what's gone wrong.....has the manager bounce dissipated or has too many players lost form at the same time...? For me, having watched the games, all roads lead to the players and their interaction....The collective imbalance in the squad, is my suspicion......all decent individual players, but no blend....jobs not being done adequately Does that not sound like the problem may be with the manager, Tro? You and I both want him to do well for us, but he really needs to sort this out. We could quite easily stumble into a relegation battle the way we are playing at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 2 hours ago, nepal_villan said: Really good visualization on Reddit highlighting the flaw with Gerrard's system. This could be fixed by replacing Luiz with Chambers until Nakamba is back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 2 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: If we're playing our full backs as wingers, then is there a case for playing our best wide defenders in midfield. A sort of: -------------------------Martinez----------------------- Cash---------Konsa---------Mings--------Digne -------Chambers-----Luiz-----Young-------------- ---------------Buendia-----Coutinho----------------- --------------------------Watkins-------------------------- So that when we have the ball, we're a bit more natural as: --------------------------Martinez------------------------ -----------------Konsa---------Mings------------------ -Chambers-----------Luiz-----------------Young-- ---------------Buendia-----Coutinho----------------- --Cash---------------Watkins--------------Digne--- Try not to get too hung up on Luiz and Watkins - replace them with your preference in your head if you like - for me those aren't the problem we need to fix, it's our imbalance down the sides. I know it sounds bonkers and it's really harsh on Ramsey - but I really think we need to look at something radical if we're going to be pushing to make the system work. This actually makes a lot of sense. If we are asking midfielders to cover the full backs, then just play full backs as midfielders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 2 hours ago, nepal_villan said: Really good visualization on Reddit highlighting the flaw with Gerrard's system. Cheers I was trying to find that yesterday. The Gerrard Nipple system. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCollins29 Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 22 hours ago, Villa87 said: For me we should go 4231 Emi Cash Konsa Mings Digne Ramsey McGinn Bailey Coutinho Buendia Ings This. I posted it in a different thread. We won'r see it cus SG will be stubborn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 Seriously how anyone, either in or outside football, can think that system can work is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skruff Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 One of the problems is that a lot of our play happens on the left side of the pitch in between, Digne, Ramsey, Buendia and Philipe. Making it easy to defend against. Theres plenty of space open on the right side, but whenever the ball is switched, its McGinn or an overlapping Cash and our play slows down or breaks down, if they manage to do a anything its a predictable cross towards the backpost. Another problem is that with the play happening on the left. And Cash bombing into the space on the right. We're completely open, with both the fullbacks attacking at the same time. While we're at the most vulnerable we pass it to the players who's most likely to break down play. I'd rather we'd have Cash as defensive fullback. Drop Buendia down to midfield for McGinn and play Baily or Traore on the right. Makes us far more unpredictable and also adds a threat on the right side which will make us harder to defend against. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 3 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: Seriously how anyone, either in or outside football, can think that system can work is beyond me. It works for Liverpool, they just have world class midfielders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaParkAvenue Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 13 minutes ago, duke313 said: It works for Liverpool, they just have world class midfielders. And CBs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 20, 2022 Moderator Share Posted February 20, 2022 And full backs. I would say the full backs they have are the key - Robertson and Alexander-Arnold are to my mind Liverpool's two best players - they are world class going forward and both can also defend - they're what makes Liverpool's system possible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rightdm00 Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 1 hour ago, duke313 said: It works for Liverpool, they just have world class midfielders. They also don't send their fullbacks on kamikaze missions. No doubt, they push high up the pitch but their front 3 are still further up. That gives the FBs something to aim for. Versus Watford Digne was sometimes the furthest up the pitch. He finished with an average position second highest only behind Ings. What is the point of pushing FBs that high if they have no one to aim for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 23 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: And full backs. I would say the full backs they have are the key - Robertson and Alexander-Arnold are to my mind Liverpool's two best players - they are world class going forward and both can also defend - they're what makes Liverpool's system possible. Could be the best two attacking fullbacks in world football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 6 hours ago, IrishVilla10 said: The system is flawed Thats not what the analysis said - it said that our players were not ideal for the system Therefore you either change the system to suit the players you have ( but accepting that the ceiling for this second-best system is lower) or persist with the system, spend the rest of the season getting the players familiar with it and bring in players to plug the gaps in the close season. I expect us to chose the second option with a few minor tweaks to accommodate the current squad abilities Obviously this is a risky strategy but maybe needed if we are to break through to the next level 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 35 minutes ago, VillaCas said: Thats not what the analysis said - it said that our players were not ideal for the system Therefore you either change the system to suit the players you have ( but accepting that the ceiling for this second-best system is lower) or persist with the system, spend the rest of the season getting the players familiar with it and bring in players to plug the gaps in the close season. I expect us to chose the second option with a few minor tweaks to accommodate the current squad abilities Obviously this is a risky strategy but maybe needed if we are to break through to the next level The full backs for thr system I can think of probably two ever that could play it and get away with it and thats Cafe and Roberto Carlos. We signed a full back who doesn't fit the system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 42 minutes ago, VillaCas said: Thats not what the analysis said - it said that our players were not ideal for the system Therefore you either change the system to suit the players you have ( but accepting that the ceiling for this second-best system is lower) or persist with the system, spend the rest of the season getting the players familiar with it and bring in players to plug the gaps in the close season. I expect us to chose the second option with a few minor tweaks to accommodate the current squad abilities Obviously this is a risky strategy but maybe needed if we are to break through to the next level If it were that simple. Surely Stevie G would choose option 1 until the end of the season - or maybe even just for the Brighton game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 8 minutes ago, Zatman said: The full backs for thr system I can think of probably two ever that could play it and get away with it and thats Cafe and Roberto Carlos. We signed a full back who doesn't fit the system Madness isn't it We seem to be a blueprint from the money no object CL leagues clubs. Let's start with a set up that beats Watford at home. We can worry about beating Man City and real Madrid in due course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 14 hours ago, sharkyvilla said: Cheers I was trying to find that yesterday. The Gerrard Nipple system. The issue we have is that the two red dots in the lower part of the nipple are never there. The wing backs get exposed, and knackered trying to cover both ends of the pitch at all times. The offence becomes way too narrow as a result, and easy to defend against. We don't have the players for this system. All our midfielders are too offensively minded, and noone seems to be fit enough. Bizarre situation we find ourselves in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummybloke Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 Either have to put Ramsey in the middle and have the other 2 midfielders behind him, holding far more to provide cover and a more structured formation so when a full back goes forward that midfielder drops into the open space. Or have Chambers in front of the back 4 and then drop the front 3 to 1 up front, 1 behind and 3 across the middle. What he is doing now just does not work and is exposing us every game. We have some very good players, being misused. We have players completely out of form, possibly through this continued system and formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 I don't know how easy it is to tweak the system. If we ask the full backs to not get forward as much then that means other players need to occupy the wide channels. So the 10s moving wider is back to the regular 4 3 3. If it's the midfielders then we're leaving more space in centrally. Also if the full backs aren't getting forward as much then the midfielders need to defend for the full backs less. I think we just need to persevere with the system. We could change personnel though, maybe Chambers in alongside McGinn and Luiz. Give Ramsey a break maybe. Potentially we could also alter the midfield 3 so they are not a flat three, we could have Chambers and Luiz flanking JJ/McGinn centrally who is tasked with getting forward more rather than the two wider midfielders required to decide when to go forward and when to cover for fullbacks. I think there could be tweaks to make. Our problem is we are not scoring though. The fact we concede on the counter a lot won't be fixed until Nakamba is back really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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