nepal_villan Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 3 hours ago, gordy said: Just a few observations, feel free to crucify me We are missing a genuine DM, with Nakamba injured we went shopping for an upgrade but couldnt get one, I think our tactics rely on a strong DM to create balance in attack. Luis is a good midfielder but not an outright DM and I think that frustration is showing. Our strikers are not playing right. Short on confidence or not able to play the role being asked. Particularly highlighted in Newcastle match, balls into the box looking for tap home, striker nowhere near. Our CB need to move out with the balls. Mings and Konsa are too comfortable sitting there looking to knock it about. Ive seen Gerrard telling them to carry it out of the press and when they have our play improved and we beat the press - why are our CB not playing the tactic they are clearly being told? We still have Grealish syndrome. Give it to Buendia, give it to Couthinio. Ok job done, everyone relax and you guys go score now. Newcastle put 2 men on Couthinio and our plan fell apart. Just what ive seen last few games myself being an armchair professional when you start blaming more than half-a-dozen players, it's probably not the players that is the issue. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 20, 2022 Moderator Share Posted February 20, 2022 There are a number of people here suggesting more width from the two 10's, which I think is probably a good idea - but not possible in our system - they would simply be where the full backs are and in their way. I think it's our desire to get our fullbacks so high up the pitch that's causing us trouble and we either need to find a way to make it work or ditch it quickly. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 Just now, OutByEaster? said: There are a number of people here suggesting more width from the two 10's, which I think is probably a good idea - but not possible in our system - they would simply be where the full backs are and in their way. I think it's our desire to get our fullbacks so high up the pitch that's causing us trouble and we either need to find a way to make it work or ditch it quickly. I'm thinking more off the ball than when we have possession. Also would not want them to hug the line when we have the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 22 minutes ago, NoelVilla said: With performances like these in a row I would say it's now a managerial issue. We have had good performances this season both under Smith and Gerrard with this group of players. Either he is unable to get his message across, it's the wrong message to the players or let's really hope not because then we are in serious problem. He lost them. Yes, both managers have had decent results.....but analyse down the teams we have played well against.....all of them let you play, in the ,main. when we come up against teams who play the hard press....we capitulate. Open play, yes we are ok......close us down, and we have no answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nepal_villan Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 1 minute ago, OutByEaster? said: There are a number of people here suggesting more width from the two 10's, which I think is probably a good idea - but not possible in our system - they would simply be where the full backs are and in their way. I think it's our desire to get our fullbacks so high up the pitch that's causing us trouble and we either need to find a way to make it work or ditch it quickly. At least until the end of the season, Gerrard needs to drop back the fullbacks and let the 10s and 8s do the attacking. Let's secure draws and 1-0 victories before worrying about destroying teams. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwi1890 Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 8 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: There are a number of people here suggesting more width from the two 10's, which I think is probably a good idea - but not possible in our system - they would simply be where the full backs are and in their way. I think it's our desire to get our fullbacks so high up the pitch that's causing us trouble and we either need to find a way to make it work or ditch it quickly. But if it’s the way Gerrard intends to play long term should we not persevere? It’s a difficult situation gambling with our safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 18 minutes ago, Made In Aston said: I do. Martinez as 'rush' keeper to overload the midfield. It's in keeping with the current crazy system so why not? ! can you elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nepal_villan Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 4 minutes ago, gwi1890 said: But if it’s the way Gerrard intends to play long term should we not persevere? It’s a difficult situation gambling with our safety. If he just has one way of playing then we are in real trouble. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwi1890 Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 1 minute ago, nepal_villan said: If he just has one way of playing then we are in real trouble. The results need to improve, but I’d be even more worried if he was chopping and changing formations and systems each week trying to get it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 I find the constant references to Gerrard trying to copy Liverpool a little confusing. Klopp's basis is a 433 (although he will go 4231 at times); yes Liverpool's full backs are attacking and find themselves high up the pitch more often that not, but that's simply because they are very good and Liverpool dominate possession, pushing teams back. Liverpool's front 3 have a lot of flexibility and although the wider 2 players like to cut inside, that's not always the case. Their full backs are as likely to underlap as overlap, they just take advantage of openings created by the movement of Salah, Mane etc. Liverpool have multiple routes to attack. Defensively their front 3 press the opposition defence, forcing the opposition to either go long or force passes through the middle where their midfield can win it back. In comparison we are seemingly set on just two options going forwards - either trying to force intricate passes through the middle via two narrow No 10s, or have full backs attacking very wide. It's too predictable. Defensively we have the front 3 dropping narrow and then the midfielders pushing out wide, but the timing of this has to be bang on otherwise you end up with huge gaps. I think it's quite unique to Gerrard, i don't think there's many other team who set up like this? I don't see why a more standard 433 wouldn't suit us - Buendia has historically played wider right drifting more central as and when he wants, and Coutinho did the same thing from the left at Liverpool. Bailey, Traore etc would be suited by that. The full backs could still get forward, i mean the idea of a full back overlapping an attacker is not unique. It just gives us more flexibility than been strictly wedded to an idea that the front 3 must remain narrow at all costs, and any width can only come from the full backs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Afro Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 Over the past few seasons, we have tried various different formations and tactics to try and get the best out of these players when Grealish was not available and absolutely nothing has worked. Nothing! Perhaps the players are not quite up to the job?! The three big issues we have are the imbalance of the squad (too many attacking players), the lack of players who perform close to their best consistently and a general lack of football intelligence throughout the team. The only way to address any of these things is to move some players out and move some new players in. We have players who are very saleable who we could and hopefully some will move on (Targett, Konsa, Luis, McGinn, Cash, Sanson, Bert, Ings, Watkins, Bailey). If we sell 4/5 of those and then get more suitable replacements in, we can really start to judge Gerrard fairly. If he still can’t get the team to work effectively then, we can seriously start to question whether he is the problem. Until then he deserves time, patience and support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reivax_Villa Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 Since yesterdays defeat a lot of us is debating whether it’s Tactics or Personnel.. Which one is it? i think it’s a bit of both, but in order to be successful in this league you have to stretch teams and we aren’t doing that unless we hit teams on the counter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picicata Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 1 hour ago, TRO said: For me, having watched the games, all roads lead to the players and their interaction....The collective imbalance in the squad, is my suspicion......all decent individual players, but no blend....jobs not being done adequately Whilst the squad is imbalanced the manager is getting no where close to the standard out of these players that he could and part of the imbalance is caused by the formation and tactic he is imposing. We have taken on a rookie manager and we are his training ground, some accept that others don't/ won't. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said: There are a number of people here suggesting more width from the two 10's, which I think is probably a good idea - but not possible in our system - they would simply be where the full backs are and in their way. I think it's our desire to get our fullbacks so high up the pitch that's causing us trouble and we either need to find a way to make it work or ditch it quickly. This is where I wonder if data analytics may be failing us to some extent. Just a thought. To give some context, most of Ollie's goals last season were tap ins and six yard box finishes, delivery from wide. Could be getting my wires crossed though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted February 20, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted February 20, 2022 I think they’re mainly a midtable squad, so form will be patchy like a midtable squad. It’s one of the reasons why I’m not going all out against Gerrard presently. While I like to entertain thoughts of European qualification, I don’t quite expect it of them yet. Last season the squad + Grealish under Smith would probably have finished about 8th, under the proviso of no injuries to Grealish. Without Grealish, that squad was probably more like 13th. My thought for this season was that Buendia, Bailey and Ings would hopefully compensate for losing Grealish, so we’d finish about 11th again. Also help make us less reliant on one player. Obviously that hasn’t quite happened, the team was underperforming to say the least, so Smith goes. Gerrard comes in, there’s an immediate lift, so it clearly suggests Smith wasn’t getting the best out of them. But then we bring in Digne and Coutinho and bizarrely things seem to have gone bad again. Basically I would have thought that the combined talents of Buendia, Ings, Coutinho, Digne and Bailey (when fit) would be sufficient to counter Grealish’s departure, so a solid midtable should be achievable with this squad. tl;dr the squad is by no means perfect, but it should be doing better than it currently is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 29 minutes ago, Reivax_Villa said: Since yesterdays defeat a lot of us is debating whether it’s Tactics or Personnel.. Which one is it? i think it’s a bit of both, but in order to be successful in this league you have to stretch teams and we aren’t doing that unless we hit teams on the counter. Every player we played yesterday except Ramsey was a full international and for some major countries. At least 6 of them have a chance of winning the World Cup this year 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCollins29 Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 Id like to see us change the system. Go 4231 Emi Cash konsa mings digne Mcginn ramsey Buendia phil bailey Ings Full backs need to be way more conservative until we start becoming more solid. Allow them to become a 4 with mchinn n ramsey when on the attack. Let bailey run at defenders, let phil work his magic giving through balls to ings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaParkAvenue Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 6 minutes ago, Zatman said: Luckily for us Brighton just want to win the XG and not the game so we have a chance of getting a draw Burnley beat Brighton 3-0 yesterday so maybe it’s back to basics. Sean Dyche ball, low block, keeper plays it long every time, chase second balls and aim for the tall striker’s head. Who’s our tall striker again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 We have chance against Brighton because they'll be that dominant on the ball we can just sit in and defend. The only thing that works in this formation. Brighton of course have just lost 3-0 at home to Burnley. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 7 minutes ago, Tomaszk said: We have chance against Brighton because they'll be that dominant on the ball we can just sit in and defend. The only thing that works in this formation. Brighton of course have just lost 3-0 at home to Burnley. I was thinking that, their style of play might suit us. However, after a bad loss, they are due a win... so you know the rest. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts