ozvillafan Posted February 20, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted February 20, 2022 I don't have a problem with the system (though I kinda like my wingers to be wingers and my fullbacks to be fullbacks and my midfielders tighter in midfield) - but I don't see the sense in changing it up as much as we did yesterday with our subs. Watkins for Luiz means: McGinn swaps from left midfield to CDM? Buendia moves to left midfield? Watkins plays as second striker? Coutinho alone behind a front 2 in a 4-3-1-2? But then we have Baily for Buendia, which means: Coutinho goes left midfielder in a 4-3-3? We play 4-2-1-3 with Watkins wide left? We play 4-2-2-2 with Bailey in that second 2? We kinda lost our shape and composure from then - and it was after this substitution that Watford scored. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bose Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, Tomaszk said: We beat Liverpool 7-2 last year with a worse squad. We got 55 points last year with a worse squad. These players are plenty good enough to take points against Watford, Newcastle, Leeds and Brentford. Being a good player doesn't make you a good manager. Suddenly most of our players are poor and don’t have what it takes? Even saw a few talking about a cancerous squad like we are back in 2015? Nonsense. We have plenty of excellent footballers and most of them are very hard working. It’s something else entirely. Gerrard for me though needs more time, we can’t start again this season. He gets the summer and we’ll see how we are early next season IMO Edit: not a dig at you Tomaszk, I agree with your points Edited February 20, 2022 by bose 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 29 minutes ago, bose said: We can’t start again this season. He gets the summer and we’ll see how we are early next season IMO So far...so little has happened, we absolutely can. The only games we've looked good under Gerrard were early on when we were backs to the wall and it was burst of new manager bounce. The more he's had a chance to train the team, the worse they've got as they try to carry out this foolish system. I'd love to see anything... anything positive to make me think he's sticking with. It's been good press conferences so far, and that's it. No excuses says the gaffer. So he better start delivering. Bored of lip service about simple instructions from him and the squad whenever they're interviewed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Tomaszk said: So far...so little has happened, we absolutely can. The only games we've looked good under Gerrard were early on when we were backs to the wall and it was burst of new manager bounce. The more he's had a chance to train the team, the worse they've got as they try to carry out this foolish system. I'd love to see anything... anything positive to make me think he's sticking with. It's been good press conferences so far, and that's it. No excuses says the gaffer. So he better start delivering. Bored of lip service about simple instructions from him and the squad whenever they're interviewed. I’m with you, I’m so fed up with this formation and system. It places absolutely all attacking responsibility on the fullbacks and the midfielders play this weird inverted full back role themselves. McGinn plays in the right channel and Ramsey in the left. I’m not even sure what Luiz does - not very much in truth. If you press us high, and stop the fullbacks getting forward, we have absolutely nothing and teams have pretty much worked out what we’re going to do in every single match. Newcastle being the best example. This season has been a mess from the moment Grealish was sold. We didn’t buy a central midfielder (or two) in the Summer and bought two right sided attackers to play in a 4-2-3-1 formation. We then sacked the manager and changed the system. We’ve spent an absolute boat load of money and we don’t look any better right now than when we did the year we got promoted. That’s how poor we’ve been over the last few games. I have no idea what the answer is. I guess we’ll throw more money at it in the Summer in the hope something works but right now, if I’m NSWE, I’m ringing Purslow on Monday morning and asking him why we’re so poor given the amount of investment. I mentioned it in the reaction thread but it’s worth mentioning again. It’s absolutely criminal to be where we are in the league with the money we’ve spent. Shocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regular_john Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 (edited) We've got a good first 11. I think a minor tweak in the midfield would get the best out of them. Sack off this whole 'two number 10s' idea, it's too narrow. Let Coutinho and Buendia a bit wider, free up the full backs to do some defending, McGinn and Luiz to prioritise defensive support until results start to get back on track. Don't see a better alternative at the minute. Edited February 20, 2022 by regular_john 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 (edited) Couldn't some of the issues be solved by having the two 10's be the ones who covers the wide areas rather than having two of our CM's (Ramsey & McGinn) doing it leaving the 3rd CM totally exposed and alone in the middle when we don't have the ball? If not then the two 10's need to either be better at pressing or quicker at dropping down when we don't have the ball. Edited February 20, 2022 by sne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 3 hours ago, bose said: Suddenly most of our players are poor and don’t have what it takes? Even saw a few talking about a cancerous squad like we are back in 2015? Nonsense. We have plenty of excellent footballers and most of them are very hard working. It’s something else entirely. Gerrard for me though needs more time, we can’t start again this season. He gets the summer and we’ll see how we are early next season IMO Edit: not a dig at you Tomaszk, I agree with your points He needs to show us enough to earn the right to have this summer, IMO. If we don't get much better then he has to go - I don't want to hear excuses about the playing squad not being up to snuff, they're plenty good enough and he needs to get more out of them. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regular_john Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 15 minutes ago, sne said: Couldn't some of the issues be solved by having the two 10's be the ones who covers the wide areas rather than having two of our CM's (Ramsey & McGinn) doing it leaving the 3rd CM totally exposed and alone in the middle when we don't have the ball? If not then the two 10's need to either be better at pressing or quicker at dropping down when we don't have the ball. Like wingers, almost? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordy Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 Just a few observations, feel free to crucify me We are missing a genuine DM, with Nakamba injured we went shopping for an upgrade but couldnt get one, I think our tactics rely on a strong DM to create balance in attack. Luis is a good midfielder but not an outright DM and I think that frustration is showing. Our strikers are not playing right. Short on confidence or not able to play the role being asked. Particularly highlighted in Newcastle match, balls into the box looking for tap home, striker nowhere near. Our CB need to move out with the balls. Mings and Konsa are too comfortable sitting there looking to knock it about. Ive seen Gerrard telling them to carry it out of the press and when they have our play improved and we beat the press - why are our CB not playing the tactic they are clearly being told? We still have Grealish syndrome. Give it to Buendia, give it to Couthinio. Ok job done, everyone relax and you guys go score now. Newcastle put 2 men on Couthinio and our plan fell apart. Just what ive seen last few games myself being an armchair professional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 7 minutes ago, regular_john said: Like wingers, almost? Well not really since their starting point would still be central. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 I think the formation needs tweaking. We need to create more width by moving our 10s wider in game if opposition pack the midfield like Watford and Newcastle have done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 I never thought I’d say it before his pre injury’s form but it’s clear Nakamba is massive for us. not because of how he managed the DM role but that it unlocked everyone in front of him. this squad is far better than our current form and position. better than Southampton and better than Brighton. so on paper we should be 9th, and for me that’s about fair for this squad based on the teams above us right now. that means we need to beat both Brighton and Southampton to get to that position. i am so annoyed that we let our easiest calendar month of fixtures go down the swanny and we now have to do it against the tougher opposition. why can’t we just have one season that isn’t stressful as fook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 We need to play with more width from the 10s. We could just revert to the 4 2 3 1 for the remainder of the season and return to the 4 3 2 1 after a summer and pre season with many new players 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheltenham_villa Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 44 minutes ago, CVByrne said: I think the formation needs tweaking. We need to create more width by moving our 10s wider in game if opposition pack the midfield like Watford and Newcastle have done This is what I wanted, some different thinking. We can't keep relying on Digne and Cash for width. Ming's and Chambers were bringing the ball inside the Watford half, at time Mcginn and Ramsey ended up next to them. I would like to have seen Bailey play really wide and maybe Watkins as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 I think the system has potential but its something you work on in pre season not halfway through a season. He should have played a system that suited the current squad and got to safety then try his tactic 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picicata Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 We need to ditch the 4321 as soon as possible. Switch to a 4231 or 433 which we have the personnel to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 Having had time to consider yesterday's game, I actually think that yesterday's performance was worse than I thought at the time. We really should have beaten Watford, not because we are Aston Villa, but because our personnel are better. Make no mistake, Watford are a poor side, and are bottom for a reason, and they should not have been able to come to our home ground and beat us. But apart from that, we have been poor for too many games now. Our players are good enough for mid table, and are capable of more than Gerrard is getting from them. They have already shown that in brief periods of games. I don't know where our next win is coming from. I get that Gerrard is learning on the job, but so far, with the resources he has behind him, he has been unable to achieve what I would consider to be acceptable. I had high hopes for him, but I am very disappointed. We obviously need to give him time. The rest of this season certainly. But beyond that it will depend on our owners, who definitely will not have unlimited patience. He is now in a very important stage of his managerial career and needs to show considerable improvement during the remainder of the season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 (edited) 13 hours ago, Tomaszk said: We beat Liverpool 7-2 last year with a worse squad. We got 55 points last year with a worse squad. These players are plenty good enough to take points against Watford, Newcastle, Leeds and Brentford. Being a good player doesn't make you a good manager. No it doesn't....but equally, its doesn't make you a bad one either. SG has been with us for 3 months....and in my view has an imbalanced squad to juggle with. I am not saying he is without criticism, but with such an imbalance, mistakes are inevitable. I am not sure what your overall point is in the first 3 lines, but the players you say are good enough, got Dean the sack and he had 3 years with them. The players might be good enough, but not together.....this is a collective issue, where certain things required during a game are not being done adequately......when that happens and the opposition are aware, you become vulnerable. Make no mistake here.....We was like this under Dean Smith, for large periods of his tenure.....and it caught up with him, to a point he didn't know what to do, to cure it. So lets be a bit patient with a relatively young manager, who is trying to get to grips with it.....we all have our theories on what could be wrong, but he has to be the one, with the responsibilty. To harp on about the "Great Player" syndrome is cheap and unhelpful......many great players have been good managers, Pep was no slouch or Conte, Ancellotti had a decent playing career too....Zinnedine Zidane has done both to an elite level. The problems SG is experiencing with us, has been with us for some time, which makes the situation all the more frustrating, because we all thought, he could change it after the impressive start. Same players, same manager.....so what's gone wrong.....has the manager bounce dissipated or has too many players lost form at the same time...? For me, having watched the games, all roads lead to the players and their interaction....The collective imbalance in the squad, is my suspicion......all decent individual players, but no blend....jobs not being done adequately Edited February 20, 2022 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelVilla Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 12 minutes ago, TRO said: For me, having watched the games, all roads lead to the players and their interaction....The collective imbalance in the squad, is my suspicion......all decent individual players, but no blend....jobs not being done adequately With performances like these in a row I would say it's now a managerial issue. We have had good performances this season both under Smith and Gerrard with this group of players. Either he is unable to get his message across, it's the wrong message to the players or let's really hope not because then we are in serious problem. He lost them. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Made In Aston Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 4 hours ago, Delphinho123 said: I have no idea what the answer is. I do. Martinez as 'rush' keeper to overload the midfield. It's in keeping with the current crazy system so why not? ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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