Team shape, tactics and personnel

[AV82]

Trying to wrap my head around having Douglas Luiz, McGinn, Ramsey, Buendia and Coutinho occupying the middle of the pitch and being unable to beat a press and string a few passes together. If you’re lumping the ball over those 5 into Ollie Watkins with Dan Burn on his back something has gone terrible, terribly wrong.

[MaVilla]

19 minutes ago, AV82 said:

Trying to wrap my head around having Douglas Luiz, McGinn, Ramsey, Buendia and Coutinho occupying the middle of the pitch and being unable to beat a press and string a few passes together. If you’re lumping the ball over those 5 into Ollie Watkins with Dan Burn on his back something has gone terrible, terribly wrong.

its because McGinn cant play intricate passes, he isnt composed in tight spaces, and doesnt have the technical ability to play that type of football.

With regard to Luiz, i think he likes to take too much time, he's too slow, too pondersome, and also isnt as technically gifted as people think he is, if im honest.

I think its a scenario of, we are overrating some of our players, thinking they are much better than they are.

I also think Watkins is completely incapable of playing the tight, intricate type of football that Gerrard wants to the front 3 to play, the ball pounces off him like he is a plank of wood.

Cash is also like kryptonite to how Gerrard wants to play, once Casg passes the half way line he is gash.

 

The fact is, imo, only Martinez, Digne, Ramsey, Buendia & Coutinho (and maybe the CD's), are good enough for the starting 11, in terms of the style Gerrard wants to play.

Cash, Mcginn, Luiz & Watkins are 100% not good enough.

 

Edited February 13, 2022 by MaVilla

[Made In Aston]

Gerrard said there would be changes for Watford. I don't think there are many he can make without negatively affecting the quality of the first 11. Possibly Sanson for Ramsey /Mcginn and Ings for Watkins? Bailey isn't a no. 10 so can't replace Buendia and we don't have any genuine cover at full back or DCM. That leaves you with the kids like Iroebunam and Chuckwumeka. Don't think I trust either to start just yet. 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Made In Aston

[AV82]

18 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

its because McGinn cant play intricate passes, he isnt composed in tight spaces, and doesnt have the technical ability to play that type of football.

With regard to Luiz, i think he likes to take too much time, he's too slow, too pondersome, and also isnt as technically gifted as people think he is, if im honest.

I think its a scenario of, we are overrating some of our players, thinking they are much better than they are.

I also think Watkins is completely incapable of playing the tight, intricate type of football that Gerrard wants to the front 3 to play, the ball pounces off him like he is a plank of wood.

Cash is also like kryptonite to how Gerrard wants to play, once Casg passes the half way line he is gash.

 

The fact is, imo, only Martinez, Digne, Ramsey, Buendia & Coutinho (and maybe the CD's), are good enough for the starting 11, in terms of the style Gerrard wants to play.

Cash, Mcginn, Luiz & Watkins are 100% not good enough.

 

In keeping with this it'll be interesting to see who is dropped for the Watford game. Changes will be made.

[VillanousOne]

For Dean as soon as Grealish left and he stopped playing wide players we fell apart.

Now Gerrard is doing the same thing, only he's expecting Digne and Cash to provide the attacking width and it isn't working. Even if anyone tries to cross there is only Watkins in the box trying to win anything and failing. Now any team just has to put two or three players marking Watkins and that's our attack nullified.

We lack pace, physicality and urgency.

Coutinho had possession on a number of times today and looked up to see if anyone was making a run forward and had to pass sideways or backwards because no one bothered.

[djdabush]

1 hour ago, Made In Aston said:

Gerrard said there would be changes for Watford. I don't think they're are many he can make without negatively affecting the quality of the first 11. Possibly Sanson for Ramsey /Mcginn and Ings for Watkins? Bailey isn't a no. 10 so can't replace Buendia and we don't have any genuine cover at full back or DCM. That leaves you with the kids like Iroebunam and Chuckwumeka. Don't think I trust either to stay just yet. 

Pretty much came to post the same thing although I do wonder if he might try Sanson as a 6 as I just don't see him dropping either Ramsey or McGinn.

[VillaParkAvenue]

8 minutes ago, TomC said:

To be fair to Digne, how many goals has he been at fault in the last two games?

1st goal against Leeds: attack did come down our left, but Konsa was marking the scorer and got nutmegged.

2nd goal against Leeds: cross from our right, then headed in by a player in the centre marked by both Mings and Buendia.

3rd goal against Leeds: cross from our right off short corner, McGinn failed to cut out the cross, Mings made the initial block but the rebound fell to a player in the centre who should have been marked by Konsa.

Today's goal: initial attack down the middle, free kick given away by Chambers, free kick goes through wall thanks to freak deflection off Buendia.

I see zero goals where Digne was at fault.

 

Our defence is shaky partly because the fullbacks are told to be high up the pitch, instead of doing ordinary defending. That’s not on Digne, it’s the system.

[TomC]

Just now, VillaParkAvenue said:

Our defence is shaky partly because the fullbacks are told to be high up the pitch, instead of doing ordinary defending. That’s not on Digne, it’s the system.

Fair enough, I don't disagree, but I was responding someone who was aiming at Digne personally...

 

[nick76]

6 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

This is still a dean smith team we have to remember  that. We over spent in watkins it seems. So we need to again rip it up and rebuild.

Gerrard gets a summer window minimum.  Need to get rid of the deadwood like aeg trez, and possibly watkins and cash. I truat gerrard will bring in better players than these

Largely this team got 55 points last season, it can’t be that bad.  

We’ve lost Jack but added Buendia, Coutinho, Ings and Bailey, and JJ has stepped up properly from youth.  We’ve also swapped Targett for Digne, an upgrade.  

We need to add better players and ship out some but this team has massively underperformed because they have shown they can do it in the past.  The Dean Smith team as you call it, needs to get their shit together and do their job just as much as changes need to be made in the summer.  This team is a lot better than what it is showing us.

[Thug]

7 minutes ago, Mantis said:

This seems awfully selective. Not really sure what your point even is here? Also bear in mind we lost to an even worse Sheffield United team less than a year ago under Smith, with them playing with 10 men no less.

Awfully selective?

Shall I go with the last 6 then? Smith had 3 points from last 6, Gerrard has 4.  Sound better?

You see the point you’re failing to grasp that I’ve said umpteen times now is that smith needed to go.

The point is, we’re not much better off now than we were then.

This is an observation.

The point is NOT that Gerrard needs to go. Quite the opposite. He needs to stay for the sake of stability.

The point is - we’re still shit.

The point is his system isn’t working.  The players aren’t performing.  But he’s seemingly making no adaptations to counter this, either before or during the game.  He needs to start doing this.

Why you hell bent on arguing against this?

 

 

[Tayls]

36 minutes ago, TomC said:

To be fair to Digne, how many goals has he been at fault in the last two games?

1st goal against Leeds: attack did come down our left, but Konsa was marking the scorer and got nutmegged.

2nd goal against Leeds: cross from our right, then headed in by a player in the centre marked by both Mings and Buendia.

3rd goal against Leeds: cross from our right off short corner, McGinn failed to cut out the cross, Mings made the initial block but the rebound fell to a player in the centre who should have been marked by Konsa.

Today's goal: initial attack down the middle, free kick given away by Chambers, free kick goes through wall thanks to freak deflection off Buendia.

I see zero goals where Digne was at fault.

 

To be fair I didn’t say he has been at fault for any goals conceded, I just said he’s part of our main problem - which is the defence, and the ‘defending’ aspect of our game. 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Tayls

[villa89]

I remain to be convinced by this two number ten system. 

[nick76]

2 minutes ago, villa89 said:

I remain to be convinced by this two number ten system. 

I think that is the least of our worries.  It’s the number 9 in between, the middle three and the back five (inc GK) that’s our problem at the moment.

[GingerCollins29]

All i hear is that we need new this, new that to make the system work. Maybe its the system?

[picicata]

The formation is causing us problems. Having all six players Infront of the defence occupying such a small area of the pitch when we have possession at the back is making it incredibly easy to mark them out the game. This forces the centre back in possession to either go long or try to break through the lines by running with the ball.

 

Out of possession we have two massive channels down our sides to exploit, which we can only close by pulling out midfielders and disrupting our shape.

Gerrard needs to find a way to use all the pitch as currently we are ignoring a third of it and it is hurting us in both attack and defence

[CVByrne]

The problem with the club is the spine of the team. No manager can fix a side which relies on players who are so inconsistent. McGinn is the epitome of the problem with Aston Villa. We need to bring in a new spine to the team. We need a new starting CB to replace Mings as the leader of the defence. We need the same in midfield, a leader. We need that CDM to impose our midfield on the opposition. If we can get rid of Watkins and bring in another CF that's a bonus.

Watkins, McGinn, Mings - that spine needs to be removed now. It clearly has failed too much and repeatedly under different managers now.

[PerryBarrPet]

3 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

The problem with the club is the spine of the team. No manager can fix a side which relies on players who are so inconsistent. McGinn is the epitome of the problem with Aston Villa. We need to bring in a new spine to the team. We need a new starting CB to replace Mings as the leader of the defence. We need the same in midfield, a leader. We need that CDM to impose our midfield on the opposition. If we can get rid of Watkins and bring in another CF that's a bonus.

Watkins, McGinn, Mings - that spine needs to be removed now. It clearly has failed too much and repeatedly under different managers now.

I agree with this plus, given the Gerrard 4:3:3 system with overlapping fullbacks, we need two new in midfield. McGinn, Sanson and possibly Luiz are not good enough. Ramsey will be good enough as he develops; Nakamba never will.

[The Fun Factory]

I think either Luiz or McGinn will go in the summer as the two have never really worked well together. And then we can reinvest that in getting a player who will just sit in front of the back 4, make tackles, and distribute the ball.

[CVByrne]

1 minute ago, PerryBarrPet said:

I agree with this plus, given the Gerrard 4:3:3 system with overlapping fullbacks, we need two new in midfield. McGinn, Sanson and possibly Luiz are not good enough. Ramsey will be good enough as he develops; Nakamba never will.

I'm happy with our fullbacks, and our 10s. It's clear our CBs and Midfield lack the skills to build play from the back. McGinn is (as well all know) a poor passer of the ball. His pass completion % is in the bottom 10% of all midfielders in the top 5 leagues. He is also in the bottom 20% for passes attempted. So he doesn't pass much and when he does he's appallingly bad at it. He cannot be a regular in the first team. Add to that his inconsistency is his hallmark. Luiz as the holding midfielder doesn't get above the 40% in passes attempted or completed despite being in the position where this is a fundamental basic of the position. Especially because the issues with him are he is poor defensively, he also does nothing in possession. 

Both those players need to be removed as regular first team players if we are to fix the midfield. Then in defence we have CBs who struggle under the opposition press and lack any passing skills to build from the back. If we don't build from the back the system fails. We need to pass the ball through midfield to our 10s. That is the system. If we are a long ball team from defence we need wide forwards to make runs onto them. So until we have two new midfielders and at least one new CB (ideally 2) we will continue to fail to progress.

 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 hour ago, Jbvilla909 said:

That's why I was surprised he went with the same starting eleven. 

Needed fresh legs imo, although I don't think that was the only reason.

Be interesting to see who he drops for the Watford game...

Mate in my opinion, Sanson and Ings needs a run now.

Ollie and McGiin probably don't deserve their starting places based on last few performances.

Also, unpopular opinion, but at this point, I even feel like sometimes Carney is getting minutes just to " appease " him, to the detriment of the team at times, over Sanson.