Summer transfer window 2021

[KangarooVillan]

57 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

He's currently better defensively than all of them apart from maybe Nakamba and a way better passer of the ball than him.

Ramsey is talented, but doesn't yet add much apart from running when he comes on. Needs to go on loan playing every week to properly develop.

I agree that ideally we'll be after a first choice midfielder, I just don't buy all this 'worry' from people. You'd think we scraped survival last season again. I also think our coaches and the club have earned enough credit for us to give them the benefit of the doubt, particularly with a player that one of them has worked with. 

At least he wouldn't cost near £30m like Tyrone Mings, the other 26 year old flop we've signed recently.

Are you saying Mings is a flop??

[Sam-AVFC]

3 minutes ago, KangarooVillan said:

Are you saying Mings is a flop??

The complete opposite. At the time we signed him lots of people (including most Bournemouth fans) thought he was.

[KangarooVillan]

Just now, Sam-AVFC said:

The complete opposite. At the time we signed him lots of people (including most Bournemouth fans) thought he was.

No worries, sorry misread.

Almost choked on my dinner but all good.

[VillaJay]

44 minutes ago, HalfTimePost said:

I know a few Watford fans who say he's only been OK for them the last few seasons and never really kicked on. 'useful' is their wording for him and that's this season in the championship. 

Our new starting CAM he is not

He was instrumental for them under the new boss in the second half of the season playing in front of the back four and starting moves from the back, I'd imagine that's where Villa would see him coming in, taking the ball off the back 4 and initiating our attacks, would help with our distribution and keeping the ball better too. 

Would be a shrewd signing who'd surprise a lot of people. We don't need 11 superstars to be a top side, we need 5/6 exceptional players and the supporting players that work as part of a well oiled machine to let the stars do their thing.

[est1874]

28 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

Seb's the left back.

Ah sorry. Was it his brother Dom Revan who played at CB? Memory's for shit 

[Sam-AVFC]

2 minutes ago, est1874 said:

Ah sorry. Was it his brother Dom Revan who played at CB? Memory's for shit 

Yeah, but I think one of them has played both CB and FB. Add to that all the repition of names in our youth teams and it can be confusing as ****. 

[RichiBoi11]

Just now, est1874 said:

Ah sorry. Was it his brother Dom Revan who played at CB? Memory's for shit 

Seb is the left back, but you're right, he has played centre back in both our friendlies. I believe Dom is coming back from an injury. So as it stands, until Mings returns to training there's now only Hause, Konsa and Bogarde. Part of me thinks we must be close to another centre back if Seb's been let go before trhe next friendly, but then I wouldn't be surprised if at Bristol on Saturday Hause and Konsa play the whole game, with a cameo for Bogarde if one has to come off.

[Awol]

56 minutes ago, Shirtman said:

Lamare bogarde has looked good pre season

Agreed, not first team ready yet but will be excellent in a few seasons time.

[TRO]

16 hours ago, weedman said:

The DM thing is clear really, he wants a DM who is a playmaker 1st, someone who will sit in front of the defence and start the attacks. When he first joined it was Hourihane and he reluctantly switched to Whelan when it wasn't working but was clearly desperate to put him back in for his passing. Its why he always wants to play Luiz instead of Nakamba until his form got so bad he had no choice but to drop him.

I think most teams have to decide if they want one type or the other, the players adept at both are the most saught after players in football a lot of the time, and for Dean he would sacrifice the defensive side for the playmaker side.

I hope we find a player that can do both and sign them, although I fear the only real options are either spending £50m+ or bringing in a "project" player who could be that guy in a few years, or have Luiz work on improving the defensive part of his game. He is so young with so much potential and if he can realise it we'll genuinely have a star on our hands in that role. Maybe that's the master plan in the next few years?

That is precisely the player, I seek, a player who can defend and scheme....We have gone past the point of accepting one or the other, we have moved on.

I accept all that...but I have issue with the notion , they are hard to find.....all good players are hard to find and if we are ambitious, and I believe we are, we need to get used to it.

just off the top of my head, with out any research....Leicester, have had Kante,Ndidi, and Soumare, West Ham have Soucek and rice, Southampton have JWP and Romeu.......all these players can do both....thats without involving the top 6

I accept your reasoning, but if I could create a hybrid with Nakamba and Luiz, I might be happy......IMO we have gone past the stage of limited players, we have left that behind in the championship, this league requires more rounded players, with multi functional attributes.

and I think you are right, in what you say has been Deans choice of playmaker over defender.....I am saying he shouldn't have to compromise that choice, we need the player to do both.....Hence my anxiety to recruit one.

I will put my neck out now and say....if we don't strengthen centre midfield, we can wave goodbye to European aspirations.

Edited July 28, 2021 by TRO

[Delphinho123]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

That is precisely the player, I seek, a player who can defend and scheme....We have gone past the point of accepting one or the other, we have moved on.

I accept all that...but I have issue with the notion , they are hard to find.....all good players are hard to find and if we are ambitious, and I believe we are, we need to get used to it.

just off the top of my head, with out any research....Leicester, have had Kante,Ndidi, and Soumare, West Ham have Soucek and rice, Southampton have JWP and Romeu.......all these players can do both.

I accept your reasoning, but if I could create a hybrid with Nakamba and Luiz, I might be happy......IMO we have gone past the stage of limited players, we have left that behind in the championship, this league requires more rounded players, with multi functional attributes.

and I think you are right, in what you say has been Deans choice of playmaker over defender.....I am saying he shouldn't have to compromise that choice, we need the player to do both.....Hence my anxiety to recruit one.

I will put my neck out now and say....if we don't strengthen centre midfield, we can wave goodbye to European aspirations.

I’m afraid you’re probably right. We could keep Jack and sign two Leon Baileys and I don’t think we’d get into Europe without a quality no.6.

We don’t protect the back 4 enough and still allow too many shots at Martinez in goal. 

[Sulberto21]

2 hours ago, Sam-AVFC said:

He's currently better defensively than all of them apart from maybe Nakamba and a way better passer of the ball than him.

Ramsey is talented, but doesn't yet add much apart from running when he comes on. Needs to go on loan playing every week to properly develop.

I agree that ideally we'll be after a first choice midfielder, I just don't buy all this 'worry' from people. You'd think we scraped survival last season again. I also think our coaches and the club have earned enough credit for us to give them the benefit of the doubt, particularly with a player that one of them has worked with. 

At least he wouldn't cost near £30m like Tyrone Mings, the other 26 year old flop we've signed recently.

84% pass completion in the championship for Hughes compared to 85.7% in the Premier League for Nakamba. Nakamba has good short range 89% and medium range 89% passing. There's a myth Nakamba can't pass the ball. 

For some unbeknown reason people think the players' performances are the same from the 19/20 season and seem hung up on that. Nakamba has improved his passing. Not the most creative but his job is - get ball give ball , get ball give ball, get ball give ball. 

Makalele did the same. 

[TRO]

8 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

I’m afraid you’re probably right. We could keep Jack and sign two Leon Baileys and I don’t think we’d get into Europe without a quality no.6.

We don’t protect the back 4 enough and still allow too many shots at Martinez in goal. 

precisely, and without being arrogant....I think its plain to see....right now, I am just clinging to the hope that Nakamba, can up his game, like he indicated at the back end of last season, I am hoping that is on the cards, because we are not linked with one.

most of the calls on the podcasts, say the same, its only on here, that it can only be seen by a few.

However, I can understand Dean giving Nakamba, more time to show what he can do, in terms of playmaking.....Luiz, I have less hope he can defend, but always happy to be proved wrong, in the interests of the team.

[Sam-AVFC]

4 minutes ago, Sulberto21 said:

84% pass completion in the championship for Hughes compared to 85.7% in the Premier League for Nakamba. Nakamba has good short range 89% and medium range 89% passing. There's a myth Nakamba can't pass the ball. 

For some unbeknown reason people think the players' performances are the same from the 19/20 season and seem hung up on that. Nakamba has improved his passing. Not the most creative but his job is - get ball give ball , get ball give ball, get ball give ball. 

Makalele did the same. 

Nope, I'm basing it on now and I agree his passing has improved massively. 

Didn't you notice on the weekend how  many easy forward passes he ignored? Or the hospital pass in our own box? Or the shit touches where he would have lost the ball in the PL? I know it was only a friendly so I'm happy to give him the benefit of the doubt as he's already improved loads. 

We really need to get past the arrogance of assuming someone must be forming an opinion from a time you thought he was shit, rather than just not agreeing with you. Because if we go down that route and you genuinely think Nakamba is better at passing than Hughes I could just as easily say you clearly watch no football at all. 

As for the argument that as a team we're better with a more defensively minded guy that keeps it simple, I think that's a perfectly reasonable opinion even if I don't agree. 

[TRO]

15 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

I’m afraid you’re probably right. We could keep Jack and sign two Leon Baileys and I don’t think we’d get into Europe without a quality no.6.

We don’t protect the back 4 enough and still allow too many shots at Martinez in goal. 

In the Euro Final we had a world class front 3.....but we couldn't get the ball to them, for long periods of the game, the second half we lost midfield to 3 midfielders with sublime ball control and an abilty to keep the ball so we (England) retreated.......does it sound familiar?

We can have a top class front 3/4 at villa......but if we haven't got the ball, its partially pointless.

We would have to rely on the odd breakaway/Counter attack.

Without an ability to have "control" in a game, Europe is a pipe dream.......A great front line will not mask an average midfield or a midfield where they struggle to stay on the ball.

[RicRic]

1 hour ago, est1874 said:

Seb Revan now gone on loan... surely that means we're close to a deal for a 4th CB...

I dont think hes anywhere near ready for any first team football anyway, only player capable of stepping up is Carney from U23’s 

[RicRic]

30 minutes ago, TRO said:

That is precisely the player, I seek, a player who can defend and scheme....We have gone past the point of accepting one or the other, we have moved on.

I accept all that...but I have issue with the notion , they are hard to find.....all good players are hard to find and if we are ambitious, and I believe we are, we need to get used to it.

just off the top of my head, with out any research....Leicester, have had Kante,Ndidi, and Soumare, West Ham have Soucek and rice, Southampton have JWP and Romeu.......all these players can do both.

I accept your reasoning, but if I could create a hybrid with Nakamba and Luiz, I might be happy......IMO we have gone past the stage of limited players, we have left that behind in the championship, this league requires more rounded players, with multi functional attributes.

and I think you are right, in what you say has been Deans choice of playmaker over defender.....I am saying he shouldn't have to compromise that choice, we need the player to do both.....Hence my anxiety to recruit one.

I will put my neck out now and say....if we don't strengthen centre midfield, we can wave goodbye to European aspirations.

We really should have signed Weston Mckinnie when we had the slight chance who is out there to fill that gap which ultimately means replacing Douglas Luiz 

[Sulberto21]

14 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

Nope, I'm basing it on now and I agree his passing has improved massively. 

Didn't you notice on the weekend how  many easy forward passes he ignored? Or the hospital pass in our own box? Or the shit touches where he would have lost the ball in the PL? I know it was only a friendly so I'm happy to give him the benefit of the doubt as he's already improved loads. 

We really need to get past the arrogance of assuming someone must be forming an opinion from a time you thought he was shit, rather than just not agreeing with you. Because if we go down that route and you genuinely think Nakamba is better at passing than Hughes I could just as easily say you clearly watch no football at all. 

As for the argument that as a team we're better with a more defensively minded guy that keeps it simple, I think that's a perfectly reasonable opinion even if I don't agree. 

I didn't watch the game. I'm also basing my opinion of Nakamba's improved passing from last season and the stats from FBREF. In our starting 11 there's at least 7 players who are more creative than him. Nakamba's job is to win the ball (which he does very very well)  and then give it to one of the more creative players which he does.

He struggles with 'progressive' passing. He obviously knows this and plays within his limitations. 

The debate is whether Will Hughes' passing is 'way better than his' - it isn't. It might be better (debatable)  but it's not 'way' better.

Edit - Will Hughes passing from the 19-20 Premier League season 73.6% completion, although his progressive passing is in the 28th percentile which is better than Nakamba's.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Sulberto21

[El-Reacho]

15 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

I’m afraid you’re probably right. We could keep Jack and sign two Leon Baileys and I don’t think we’d get into Europe without a quality no.6.

We don’t protect the back 4 enough and still allow too many shots at Martinez in goal. 

Not sure I agree with this. When Guardiola came to the end of his career he found he that he was becoming redundant in the game because managers wanted their midfielders to carry out either the 'Makelele' role, or else the 'behind the front two' role. He wasn't fully suited to either of those roles. So when he started into management he wanted his tactics to work for midfielders like he was so he didn't use specialised midfielders that would either protect the back 4, or play off the front and went with midfielders who could pass and keep possession above everything else. I think Smith shares that same ideal so Luiz will always get in in front of Nakamba because he can keep possession better. Smith will be trying to protect the back 4 by keeping the ball at the other end of the pitch not by buying a new No.6.

[Sam-AVFC]

36 minutes ago, TRO said:

That is precisely the player, I seek, a player who can defend and scheme....We have gone past the point of accepting one or the other, we have moved on.

I accept all that...but I have issue with the notion , they are hard to find.....all good players are hard to find and if we are ambitious, and I believe we are, we need to get used to it.

just off the top of my head, with out any research....Leicester, have had Kante,Ndidi, and Soumare, West Ham have Soucek and rice, Southampton have JWP and Romeu.......all these players can do both.

I accept your reasoning, but if I could create a hybrid with Nakamba and Luiz, I might be happy......IMO we have gone past the stage of limited players, we have left that behind in the championship, this league requires more rounded players, with multi functional attributes.

and I think you are right, in what you say has been Deans choice of playmaker over defender.....I am saying he shouldn't have to compromise that choice, we need the player to do both.....Hence my anxiety to recruit one.

I will put my neck out now and say....if we don't strengthen centre midfield, we can wave goodbye to European aspirations.

I don't see Ndidi, Romeu or Rice as being particularly good with the ball. All tidy enough, but I certainly wouldn't consider them playmakers.

I guess that's where the main difference on them being difficult to find comes in, because some people would not agree with your assessment of those players. 

Funny how we all see these things differently! 

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Sam-AVFC said:

He's currently better defensively than all of them apart from maybe Nakamba and a way better passer of the ball than him.

Ramsey is talented, but doesn't yet add much apart from running when he comes on. Needs to go on loan playing every week to properly develop.

I agree that ideally we'll be after a first choice midfielder, I just don't buy all this 'worry' from people. You'd think we scraped survival last season again. I also think our coaches and the club have earned enough credit for us to give them the benefit of the doubt, particularly with a player that one of them has worked with. 

At least he wouldn't cost near £30m like Tyrone Mings, the other 26 year old flop we've signed recently.

with the exception of Nakamba, it wouldn't take much to be better defensively than our current crop of midfielders.....We have aspirations of Europe, we need to align our thinking of what is required to reach that goal in terms of player attributes and team balance.

I am all for not setting the bar too high, but we need one eye on not setting it too low either.