Summer transfer window 2021

[Panto_Villan]

5 hours ago, Jas10 said:

Can we stop considering ourselves a care or revival home for mediocre, overrated, overrated, overpaid, deadbeat, has-been players?

Let’s show a bit more ambition and stop looking at the tired, failed or common names. We don’t need other team’s cast offs (we’re so much better and above that) and put ourself under financial strain again by senselessly wasting millions. We don’t need inferior players either…

We aren’t the Villa of the shitty Lerner and Xia regime, the Villa of mediocrity and looking to take punts that we heavily pay the price for later…

Those days are over, we mean business and have genuine ambition now.

Our owners (and manager) are doing everything they can to push and progress us, they are wise and ambitious. Let’s join in with that.

We have a truly world class talent in Jack and excellent players like Martinez, Konsa, Buendia & Ollie…. do we really want to surround them with mediocrity? I think not. We are aiming high and need high quality players to help us progress and improve. 

When we have invested so much into our scouting department, why the hell would we want to go for mediocre players such as Alli, Winks & Hughes (no better, if not worse, than our existing players) when we can scour the globe, identify the best talent and potential and bring them in to contribute to our success and progression? We’re looking for value and potential, these kinds of names do not fit the bill at all. I don’t give a shit if they have “PL experience”. A tired, overrated and overused phrase. We have enough PL experience in our team as it is, there are good players there. What we need to do is enhance that team, not sprinkle shit on it…

 

Nobody wants to buy those players because they're shit, though. They want to buy them because they have previously demonstrated they are good players who have gone off the boil or are out of favour at their current club, and the poster believes they can get their form back in a system or environment that suits them.

The fact you'd prefer the club to buy unproven talent that might not deliver its potential rather than proven talent that might not recapture past glories is a perfectly valid stance, but it's personal preference and doesn't make you a better fan / mean you believe in the club more than anyone else here.

[Jas10]

I get frustrated with the section of our fanbase that lives in the past and just clamours for old players like Benteke, or tired, old, regurgitated British/PL “names”. It just smacks of a lack of ambition and small club mentality. A very limited scope of thinking…

We don’t need mediocre players from lesser clubs and we don’t need the cast offs and out of favour players from those above us. We’re better than that.

We’ve heavily paid the price when the club have had that mentality in the past too, thankfully that is no longer the case. We’ve been burdened by some right crap and wasted millions, we need to learn that lesson.

We need to get away from that frame of mind and try and align ourselves with the owners’ vision and ambitions… a fresh, renewed, positive and exciting outlook.

Let’s bring in the best young talent that are going to be stars and become the “new names” rather than hanging on to old, tired ones…

Take our approach for Smith-Rowe for example… that’s encouraging. If we are after PL players, let’s get the best up and coming talents with bright futures rather than the deadbeats. Or even the best performing of the attainable players that would like to take that next step up.

Targets like Alvarez should excite us, can you imagine having and developing a real talent and future/potential world class player ourselves? That’s ambitious…

A player like Kamada would be an exciting link, just for example.

Olise?

We signed a massive talent and genuine, potential star in Buendia. Let’s continue along those lines.

There’re so many good players out there and many we have no awareness of.

Let’s broaden our horizons…

[Jas10]

15 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said:

Nobody wants to buy those players because they're shit, though. They want to buy them because they have previously demonstrated they are good players who have gone off the boil or are out of favour at their current club, and the poster believes they can get their form back in a system or environment that suits them.

The fact you'd prefer the club to buy unproven talent that might not deliver its potential rather than proven talent that might not recapture past glories is a perfectly valid stance, but it's personal preference and doesn't make you a better fan / mean you believe in the club more than anyone else here.

I would never say or indicate that. I am no more of a fan or more knowledgable that anyone else. There are many better than me too.

I honestly didn’t mean to talk down to or offend anyone in particular. Maybe frustration (or PASHUN!) can get the best of us at times but personally I try not to comment with any ill intent.

You’re right, it is a personal preference or opinion (which, to me, feels justified).

It’s a forum, where we share and debate opinions. And explain our points of view, I feel I’ve done that at least.

The club will carry on regardless and I am encouraged and have faith in their strategy and approach.

[Jas10]

Just desperate for us to break from recent tradition or history and genuinely succeed, improve and progress. To (re?)establish ourselves as one of the best.

Let’s break the mould.

We are looked down on in general and not taken seriously as an ambitious or big club. I can’t wait for us to really have our breakthrough and to shock & shut everyone up. Let’s break up that established order and strike fear into our opponents

Put the shitty 6 in their place and destroy and dismantle the likes of Manure.

Fresh and ambitious thinking and moves will help us to do that.

Don’t be fearful of signing foreign players or upcoming talent from home, fear only holds you back.

As much as I despise him, wouldn’t we agree that Manure bringing in Penandes helped them? 

Look at all the players Citeh, Liverpool and others have brought in. Arsenal in the past.

Other clubs like Leicester.

They weren’t looking for the Alli’s, Winks’, Hughes’ of this world. 
 

If we have ambition, should we?

Edited July 2, 2021 by Jas10

[Panto_Villan]

4 minutes ago, Jas10 said:

I would never say or indicate that. I am no more of a fan or more knowledgable that anyone else. There are many better than me too.

I honestly didn’t mean to talk down to or offend anyone in particular. Maybe frustration (or PASHUN!) can get the best of us at times but personally I try not to comment with any ill intent.

You’re right, it is a personal preference or opinion (which, to me, feels justified).

It’s a forum, where we share and debate opinions. And explain our points of view, I feel I’ve done that at least.

The club will carry on regardless and I am encouraged and have faith in their strategy and approach.

It's fine. It's just the post I quoted kinda read like you thought the only reason people wouldn't want to only sign young promising players is because we're stuck in the small time mentality of the old Villa. There's plenty of other reasons why ambitious people might prefer not to do that, though - there's plenty of ways to skin a cat when it comes to the transfer market.

[Jas10]

6 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said:

It's fine. It's just the post I quoted kinda read like you thought the only reason people wouldn't want to only sign young promising players is because we're stuck in the small time mentality of the old Villa. There's plenty of other reasons why ambitious people might prefer not to do that, though - there's plenty of ways to skin a cat when it comes to the transfer market.

I think I’ve more than covered it

You don’t have to agree with me. I don’t look at any of those names as young, promising players.

[Lord Willard]

I dont particular want Winks. He is the type of player Im still hoping Luiz will turn into. 

Winks isn't different enough to pay a fortune for. I also despise doing any business with Spurs. 

[claretman]

I can’t be bothered to read back and I agree with the sentiments about not buying other teams casts offs but occasionally they work.  

Paul McGrath anyone?  Dodgy knees, heavy drinker-a massive gamble albeit a bit cheaper.  

We would have gone nuts if we’d have signed Lingard yet look how good he was for West Ham.  I think we’re concerned about these links with other clubs because Drinkwater and Barkley were shite.

[sidcow]

8 hours ago, Jas10 said:

Forget JWP… let’s bid for SMS. Let’s go big, I don’t think the asking price would be too dissimilar.

JWP - PL and English tax, plus Soton’s value of him and reluctance to sell. £40-60m?

If we could get SMS for anywhere in that range…even a bit more, I know which player I would at least bid for… would he be that much harder to lure? What a statement signing that would be… on a completely different level…

If we really mean business…this is the player to go for…

Am I dreaming again?

OK ok, I get the message. 

[lexicon]

Two points I wanted to make:

Firstly, I don't think we should have any blanket rules about recruitment. It's a lot more complicated than that and it's about finding the right players, whatever their current circumstances may be. 

Secondly, I think our recruitment team have done more than enough to earn our trust in them. They've been absolutely brilliant.

[sidcow]

8 hours ago, Supervillan78 said:

Well signing SMS would certainly be a message of intent...

Damn you. 

[villa4europe]

Just now, claretman said:

I can’t be bothered to read back and I agree with the sentiments about not buying other teams casts offs but occasionally they work.  

Paul McGrath anyone?  Dodgy knees, heavy drinker-a massive gamble albeit a bit cheaper.  

We would have gone nuts if we’d have signed Lingard yet look how good he was for West Ham.  I think we’re concerned about these links with other clubs because Drinkwater and Barkley were shite.

Im still half convinced that when Lingard gets his £20m+ permanent deal to someone off the back of that loan spell he'll turn out to be a mistake 

He was a perfect storm at WH, fire in his belly and moyes used him well

Someone will get bit, I wouldn't take him at villa 

[MotoMkali]

7 hours ago, Jas10 said:

Can we stop considering ourselves a care or revival home for mediocre, overrated, overrated, overpaid, deadbeat, has-been players?

Let’s show a bit more ambition and stop looking at the tired, failed or common names. We don’t need other team’s cast offs (we’re so much better and above that) and put ourself under financial strain again by senselessly wasting millions. We don’t need inferior players either…

We aren’t the Villa of the shitty Lerner and Xia regime, the Villa of mediocrity and looking to take punts that we heavily pay the price for later…

Those days are over, we mean business and have genuine ambition now.

Our owners (and manager) are doing everything they can to push and progress us, they are wise and ambitious. Let’s join in with that.

We have a truly world class talent in Jack and excellent players like Martinez, Konsa, Buendia & Ollie…. do we really want to surround them with mediocrity? I think not. We are aiming high and need high quality players to help us progress and improve. 

When we have invested so much into our scouting department, why the hell would we want to go for mediocre players such as Alli, Winks & Hughes (no better, if not worse, than our existing players) when we can scour the globe, identify the best talent and potential and bring them in to contribute to our success and progression? We’re looking for value and potential, these kinds of names do not fit the bill at all. I don’t give a shit if they have “PL experience”. A tired, overrated and overused phrase. We have enough PL experience in our team as it is, there are good players there. What we need to do is enhance that team, not sprinkle shit on it…

Alli isn't like Barkley and again I said specifically we need an option to buy installed in the contract. If Alli works out he is a 15 goal, 10 assist a season player who is a hard presser and can play incisive passes and a good dribbler. If not we have had to pay 5 mil in wages better which is better than having to pay pay a 20 mil fee and 4 mil in wages.

I agree with the rest of your points but if alli can reclaim his old form he truly is a world class player. He was regarded as the player with the most potential in the world at one point. He scored the most goals from midfield since lampard. And then had his career derailed a bit by injuries. Although over the last 1.5 seasons he hasn't had a recurrence of his hamstring injury which suggests he may have gotten over it. 

[claretman]

4 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Im still half convinced that when Lingard gets his £20m+ permanent deal to someone off the back of that loan spell he'll turn out to be a mistake 

He was a perfect storm at WH, fire in his belly and moyes used him well

Someone will get bit, I wouldn't take him at villa 

You’re right, I still wouldn’t want him.  Just shows occasionally though these cast offs do work when you get them at the right time and if they have a point to prove.

Why would Winks or Alli want to move now they have a new manager to impress anyway?

[MotoMkali]

1 hour ago, Thug said:

And note, dribbled past stat should be the other way around, RB should be red, not 94% centile but rather 6th centile for getting dribbled past.  
Basically a traffic cone. Alli is 85th centile 

No, dribbled past is only when the player attempts to stop the dribbler. Basically if you don't attempt to you will be really high up. Excellent defensive players get dribbled past 3 or 4 times a game. So that is one stat you can't really read anything into except in conjunction with other stats in which Alli is fantastic defensively. 

[MotoMkali]

1 hour ago, Jas10 said:

Pretty sure we have a “no d*ckheads” policy and wouldn’t want to risk unsettling the squad & team spirit/harmony with any “bad eggs”.

I also think signing Jack’s mates would be a poor strategy, we shouldn’t be dictated by that or by Jack. We need the best/right players for the team to take us forwards.

For where we want to go, I just don’t think we can afford any “projects” or major risks, no passengers. By that I mean players who are out of form, lazy, bad attitude etc. We don’t have time to deal with that crap if we genuinely and immediately want to kick on. We need players with some semblance of form and the right attitude, to go along with talent, players worth paying the fee and wages for.

Let’s learn our lesson this time and stop holding ourselves back.

Forget expensive punts like Alli, why risk disrupting the team spirit & unity just for him? Again, we’re not a care & recovery home for players. We want to push ourselves closer and closer to the elite. You do that by getting the most talented, promising players with the hunger and determination to make a huge contribution to the team and play a significant part in our success.

Don’t get attached to “names” and has beens, let’s look for the new rather than the same old… wasting time and resourcing on trying to revive careers is not our problem or responsibility. Let’s not hinder our progress.

Alli wouldn't be expensive I think all of us have said about him being a loan signing with an option to buy. If he gets back to his peak we have another genuine world class player on our hands. If not we had to pay 5 million for wages. 

[Thug]

1 hour ago, Jas10 said:

Don’t get attached to “names” and has beens, let’s look for the new rather than the same old… wasting time and resourcing on trying to revive careers is not our problem or responsibility. Let’s not hinder our progress.

Alli is younger than Grealish, not exactly a ‘has been’

wasting time and resources on trying to revive careers could just as easily be interpreted as taking an opportunity to buy a player that’s fallen out of favour at a cut price deal.

Lingaard got 9 goals and 4 assists in 16 matches - and fits your definition of ‘has been, career revival player that would hinder our progress.’

Actually no, turns out he’s a recent England international that fell out of favour, who is actually pretty good, and almost dragged West **** Ham into the champions league,

Everyone loves a fairytale obscure player picked up from the remote village of Botswana -swapped for a zippo lighter- story, but let’s face it, when there’s an opportunity to pick up a good player for a good price, we can’t be silly about it.

IF the price is right, the wages are right, and the player fits the mould of what we’re looking for, it shouldn’t matter who they are.

As for the right attitude, and not having trouble makers, that part I totally agree with.  So maybe that would be a reason to steer clear of Alli, but quite honestly I know nothing about that to make a judgement call on it.

 

[Jas10]

17 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

Alli isn't like Barkley and again I said specifically we need an option to buy installed in the contract. If Alli works out he is a 15 goal, 10 assist a season player who is a hard presser and can play incisive passes and a good dribbler. If not we have had to pay 5 mil in wages better which is better than having to pay pay a 20 mil fee and 4 mil in wages.

I agree with the rest of your points but if alli can reclaim his old form he truly is a world class player. He was regarded as the player with the most potential in the world at one point. He scored the most goals from midfield since lampard. And then had his career derailed a bit by injuries. Although over the last 1.5 seasons he hasn't had a recurrence of his hamstring injury which suggests he may have gotten over it. 

He’s had his day, why should we be the ones to take on that burden? I feel it’s more likely to fail than work out. Let’s not pay that price. There’s so many players out there, no need to restrict ourselves.

Anway, Spurs players have a new manager to impress so maybe they won’t be shipping any/many out too soon…

[Jas10]

Just now, Thug said:

Alli is younger than Grealish, not exactly a ‘has been’

wasting time and resources on trying to revive careers could just as easily be interpreted as taking an opportunity to buy a player that’s fallen out of favour at a cut price deal.

Lingaard got 9 goals and 4 assists in 16 matches - and fits your definition of ‘has been, career revival player that would hinder our progress.’

Actually no, turns out he’s a recent England international that fell out of favour, who is actually pretty good, and almost dragged West **** Ham into the champions league,

Everyone loves a fairytale obscure player picked up from the remote village of Botswana -swapped for a zippo lighter- story, but let’s face it, when there’s an opportunity to pick up a good player for a good price, we can’t be silly about it.

IF the price is right, the wages are right, and the player fits the mould of what we’re looking for, it shouldn’t matter who they are.

As for the right attitude, and not having trouble makers, that part I totally agree with.  So maybe that would be a reason to steer clear of Alli, but quite honestly I know nothing about that to make a judgement call on it.

 

That’s a big IF mate. PL players don’t come cheap and often demand exorbitant wages…

[PaulMcGrath_5]