bobzy Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 We'll just get to a point (not in a bad way) where "they/them" will be the norm across the board. Learning process, I imagine. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted February 2 Author VT Supporter Share Posted February 2 Sentencing of the Brianna Ghey murderers today. There's been some controversy over their being named. The defence are also **** in trying to put a case forward, they obviously did it and there's not really much you can do to mitigate it. They seem to trying to claim it wasn't a hate crime and that the perpetrators are both to some extent mentally or cognitively ill - but in neither case to the degree to which it's going to do much to change the sentence (the girl has a personality disorder and the boy is mildly autistic). The boys defence is essentially relying on portraying him as a useful idiot and the girl the sadistic ringleader. Difficult one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted February 2 VT Supporter Share Posted February 2 Hope they both rot. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 2 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said: Hope they both rot. Me too. What I do wonder though, is what is the purpose of naming them in the media? I’m sure everyone in the local area knows who did it. So now people outside of that community know, but does it matter? Is it done as an extra punishment on top of what they’ll get from the court shortly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 (edited) I am not massively in favour of naming people, the parents will be targeted as a result and until I read otherwise I don't think the parents played any part in it after the fact. Also they can rot. Edited February 2 by Seat68 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted February 2 Author VT Supporter Share Posted February 2 11 minutes ago, Genie said: Me too. What I do wonder though, is what is the purpose of naming them in the media? I’m sure everyone in the local area knows who did it. So now people outside of that community know, but does it matter? Is it done as an extra punishment on top of what they’ll get from the court shortly? The argument is by naming them it means the full facts of the case are open and can be openly discussed and considered, which isn't the case when things like names are withheld. I'm not sure how much I buy that, but I can see the argument that by identifying them it makes the case more 'real' and may spark people to consider what their kids are doing in their spare time in a way that is harder to parse when it's 'boy y and girl x' who did it. It's not without issue though. It does mean their families are now at risk, and it also means that it's more difficult to rehabilitate them when they re-enter society as their name carries notoriety that can't be overcome, regardless of whether they have accepted and overcome the things they have done. Saying that, in the case if these 2, she's clearly a nasty piece of work (various murder fantasies, kill lists even after she'd been arrested, got off on the killing) and he's an idiot toady, so it's hard to feel much sympathy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 51 minutes ago, Seat68 said: I am not massively in favour of naming people, the parents will be targeted as a result and until I read otherwise I don't think the parents played any part in it after the fact. Also they can rot. They didn't tell them to do it no, but they are responsible for there kids, not that they should face any criminal charges, but they shouldn't wash there hands of the case like its nothing to do with them. I believe the Bulger case, due the ages of the kids,I think the parents were very lucky not to face charges aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted February 2 Author VT Supporter Share Posted February 2 Life with a minimum of 22 years for the girl, life with minimum of 20 years for the boy. I think she's got off a little bit there. She's clearly a danger and it appears to be a sustained and developed thing within her personality. I would not be surprised if she went long past her minimum. Judge's comments spent a lot longer attacking the boys defence that he's autistic and just 'went along with it' in essence, than going into the girl being a nasty piece of work. Possibly because her defence was essentially 'it wasn't a hate crime' and that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 53 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: They didn't tell them to do it no, but they are responsible for there kids, not that they should face any criminal charges, but they shouldn't wash there hands of the case like its nothing to do with them. I believe the Bulger case, due the ages of the kids,I think the parents were very lucky not to face charges aswell. if the parents raised the kids to be transphobic or encouraged their obsession with torture and this was a factor in the death of Brianna , then yes , you could argue the parents have some level of culpability But other than that , then I don't think the parents should be charged .. ditto the Bulger case 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post picicata Posted February 2 Popular Post Share Posted February 2 12 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: if the parents raised the kids to be transphobic or encouraged their obsession with torture and this was a factor in the death of Brianna , then yes , you could argue the parents have some level of culpability But other than that , then I don't think the parents should be charged .. ditto the Bulger case In fairness, the mother of Brianna mentions the murderer's parents in her press statement and how we should feel sympathy for them as well as they have also, essentially, lost their children. If she can say that then it's probably safe to assume they are as shocked as anyone 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted February 2 Author VT Supporter Share Posted February 2 Both of them came from fairly stable normal backgrounds - the girls parents are both teachers, the boy's a graphic designer and transport manager. So middle class professionals. Obviously we can't know if everything was fine behind closed doors but there's no indication that there was anything untoward going on that might lead to a murderer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted February 2 VT Supporter Share Posted February 2 27 minutes ago, Chindie said: Both of them came from fairly stable normal backgrounds - the girls parents are both teachers, the boy's a graphic designer and transport manager. So middle class professionals. Obviously we can't know if everything was fine behind closed doors but there's no indication that there was anything untoward going on that might lead to a murderer. 'I blame the parents' has always been a thing - and it can very often be true. But certainly not always. I personally know of kids who have gone off the rails despite having the most responsible, supportive and loving parents imaginable. And, conversely, kids who have turned out happy and well adjusted, despite having a chaotic home life. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 I wonder how many would point a finger at the upbringing and the parents and then moan about their taxes being spent on play specialists and toddler dieticians and Sure Start centres? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuwabatake Sanjuro Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 UK transphobia is so ingrained in the media there that this is the shit that gets produced by one of the biggest papers there. They will be proud when the next trans person gets murdered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 53 minutes ago, Kuwabatake Sanjuro said: UK transphobia is so ingrained in the media there that this is the shit that gets produced by one of the biggest papers there. They will be proud when the next trans person gets murdered. The murder of Brianna wasn't really transphobic. The sick vile murderers had a kill list of 5 people Brianna was the only transgender person on it. Also the Judge by allowing the naming of the killers has given free reign to vile tabloid media to put whatever they want on their front pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuwabatake Sanjuro Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 12 minutes ago, CVByrne said: The murder of Brianna wasn't really transphobic. The sick vile murderers had a kill list of 5 people Brianna was the only transgender person on it. Also the Judge by allowing the naming of the killers has given free reign to vile tabloid media to put whatever they want on their front pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 5 minutes ago, Kuwabatake Sanjuro said: Quote Scarlett Jenkinson and Eddie Ratcliffe: Teenagers who tried to get away with Brianna Ghey murder - BBC News Both teenagers spoke about people they wanted to kill and by 26 January - just two weeks before Brianna's death - they had compiled a "kill list" of five people. "We never built this case around a transgender element," said Det Ch Supt Evans. "This was about the murder of a young, vulnerable girl. We obviously know there was that kill list, which had five people on it. Brianna was one of them. "Brianna was the only person on that list who was transgender. This was about murderous intent for somebody." So the prosecution did not feel the case was about a transgender element. If they did they would have had that as part of their case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted February 3 Author VT Supporter Share Posted February 3 The judge took into account the element of transphobia in relation to the boy and it's likely partly why he got a sentence quite so close to the girls. It wasn't a transphobic attack per se but he showed a prejudice against trans people and the defence wasn't able to convince the judge to ignore that element. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuwabatake Sanjuro Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 The comments underneath it are fairly depressing (granted it is the utter cesspit of twitter but Britain really is terf island). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 10 hours ago, Kuwabatake Sanjuro said: granted it is the utter cesspit of twitter but Britain really is terf island). "De plane"! "De plane"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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