Transgenderism

[chrisp65]

2 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

We as a society need to come up with something here that balances the rights of trans people with the safety of gender segregated spaces like say changing rooms. 

It's a complicated one to square so I'm interested in where those who want to solve problems would think we should draw the line if we were to create guidance on it. 

What guidance can someone propose.

Individual unisex toilets?

Next…

 

(seriously though, simply add a sentence to the building regs, new builds and refurbs have unisex toilets, job done if you’ll excuse the pun)

[CVByrne]

59 minutes ago, Chindie said:

The toilet stuff has always been absurd.

Yeah solution there seems straightforward. Have urinals to the right and cubicles to the left and sinks in the middle. Lots of toilets have been set out like this for years. 

[CVByrne]

Just now, chrisp65 said:

Individual unisex toilets?

Next…

 

(seriously though, simply add a sentence to the building regs, new builds and refurbs have unisex toilets, job done if you’ll excuse the pun)

I wasn't talking about toilets, it was changing rooms. Say at a gym or swimming pool, or spa or whatever. 

[CVByrne]

I think a solution where there are set number of individual private changing spaces at places like a gym or pool would be a good solution. We'd need to retrofit a lot of buildings but we managed to do this in the 90s and 00s for step free access and government funding can be made available. 

This seems like a decent solution to me.

[bobzy]

6 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

I wasn't talking about toilets, it was changing rooms. Say at a gym or swimming pool, or spa or whatever. 

Yeah, unisex. You have cubicles for changing and then open spaces for people.

It’s a non-problem. 

[Davkaus]

These are the examples given by the equality and human rights commission .

As people highlight, unisex toilets seem like a perfect solution to that example - at least, until the **** tories banned them in new public buildings. They're not just stoking the fires of the culture war, they lit the bloody thing.

 

Quote

 

These could include but are not limited to:

• separate or single-sex toilets
• domestic violence refuges
• separate or single-sex changing rooms
• hospital wards

 

[CVByrne]

3 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Yeah, unisex. You have cubicles for changing and then open spaces for people.

It’s a non-problem. 

Seems the most sensible solution. But we have to actually go and do this to all the buildings in the country. That will take years to do. 

So until that happens we need guidance for buildings that are not currently set up that way yet. 

[bobzy]

Just now, CVByrne said:

Seems the most sensible solution. But we have to actually go and do this to all the buildings in the country. That will take years to do. 

So until that happens we need guidance for buildings that are not currently set up that way yet. 

I’d have assumed most changing rooms currently have cubicles, no?

[chrisp65]

17 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

I wasn't talking about toilets, it was changing rooms. Say at a gym or swimming pool, or spa or whatever. 

Back in the 1970’s I had a bit of a grand tour of Germany.

Unisex changing rooms, individual cubicles.

Fifty years ago.

 

[CVByrne]

3 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I’d have assumed most changing rooms currently have cubicles, no?

I don't know what gyms you go to  zero individual changing rooms in the ones in London. 

I think we need buildings to list on their sites if they have individual unisex changing rooms or toilets etc.

We should set policy for all buildings to make necessary changes, set policy and provide government funding for buildings to do this. 

We still haven't solved the issue of what the guidance should be for now and for buildings and changing rooms which haven't been updated to new guidance yet. Anyone want to suggest something? 

[Davkaus]

In all of the gyms I've been to in Nottingham there's mostly if not exclusively communal changing - my current one has hundreds of lockers with communal changing, then one private cubical, that everyone will absolutely assume that you have a very weird penis if you choose to use it.

[Stevo985]

Imagine the number of sexual predators who would be getting their end away if only the sign on a door didn't tell them they weren't allowed in

[bobzy]

13 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

I don't know what gyms you go to  zero individual changing rooms in the ones in London. 

I think we need buildings to list on their sites if they have individual unisex changing rooms or toilets etc.

We should set policy for all buildings to make necessary changes, set policy and provide government funding for buildings to do this. 

We still haven't solved the issue of what the guidance should be for now and for buildings and changing rooms which haven't been updated to new guidance yet. Anyone want to suggest something? 

I go to zero gyms so I have no idea.

If cubicles aren’t commonplace, then we’d need some. If they are, we just take off the little picture of the man/woman and replace it with the word “toilets” or “changing rooms”. 

[CVByrne]

3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Imagine the number of sexual predators who would be getting their end away if only the sign on a door didn't tell them they weren't allowed in

I think the argument is in past they were not allowed in, no idea how many women are in the changing room. Now they can come in and wait for an opportunity when only one woman is there on her own. 

Also, I can agree with women feeling uncomfortable with male genitalia in womens changing rooms. 

So I can see it from the perspective of these women and why they are voicing issues. Which is why I think the solutions posted by everyone above seems the sensible one. Create unisex private changing rooms, with booths/cubicles etc..

[chrisp65]

Why have buildings even got toilets and changing rooms indoors, shitting out the window not modern enough for people anymore?

Shitting up the back of the garden not good enough for people?

We can change buildings. The fact that very few people outside of Merthyr piss out of windows is testament to this.

[bobzy]

Just now, CVByrne said:

I think the argument is in past they were not allowed in, no idea how many women are in the changing room. Now they can come in and wait for an opportunity when only one woman is there on her own. 

Also, I can agree with women feeling uncomfortable with male genitalia in womens changing rooms. 

So I can see it from the perspective of these women and why they are voicing issues. Which is why I think the solutions posted by everyone above seems the sensible one. Create unisex private changing rooms, with booths/cubicles etc..

This isn’t a problem I’ve heard of at all.

But then I don’t go to a gym, so maybe it’s the women in gyms…

…but wait, how are you hearing their changing room chat anyway?! 

[CVByrne]

Just now, bobzy said:

This isn’t a problem I’ve heard of at all.

But then I don’t go to a gym, so maybe it’s the women in gyms…

…but wait, how are you hearing their changing room chat anyway?! 

These are the concerns women are raising in public on this issue. I think they have legitimate concerns (as it's how they feel in the environment) and we should balance them with the rights of trans people. Do you not agree?

[chrisp65]

Back in the early 1990’s there was a push to have accessible toilet facilities in public buildings. The consensus for a long time was that this wasn’t physically possible, wasn’t practical and would cost far far too much money.

For the small number of people that used public buildings, but also used a wheelchair, conversion of the buildings to have access in to the building, access around the building, and dedicated spacious toilets was seen by many as a ridiculous use of resource for such an invisible minority issue.

Yet here we are now, all those Victorian buildings have a wheelchair accessible toilet, they’ve got a ramp or a regraded pavement, they’ve moved rooms around so every service is available on the ground floor. The buildings didn’t get bigger and easier to work on, they were adapted. The regulations to enforce compliance were updated.

There is a fair argument that if we genuinely want to make WC;s and changing rooms safer, we need to take the doors off.

Buildings evolve as our needs change. We don’t ban people using facilities, we make the facilities more user friendly.

Hell, the very act of doing that actually increases GDP.

 

[MakemineVanilla]

1 hour ago, chrisp65 said:

Back in the 1970’s I had a bit of a grand tour of Germany.

Unisex changing rooms, individual cubicles.

Fifty years ago.

 

Freikörperkultur!

I had a bit of a surprise when getting changed at a squash court, when my girl invited me into the sauna - I never felt more British!

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by MakemineVanilla

[chrisp65]

1 minute ago, MakemineVanilla said:

Freikörperkultur!

 

It was everywhere, not just ‘designated’ places.

Any old swimming baths, women of every size and shape were topless. You’d go to a reservoir or a beach, topless people again. Stay home for the day, neighbour out topless sunbathing.

Seriously, one day we went potato picking just behind the RAF camp, topless pickers!

I was barely a teenager, it was very disconcerting.