Emiliano Martínez

[Laughable Chimp]

1 hour ago, bobzy said:

Honestly, this.  It's been completely lost in translation.  Emery says something like "I never ask my goalkeepers to go forward because there's a 5% chance we score from that but a 20% chance the opposition score on the break".  It's not him criticising Martinez, it's him saying that the goalkeeper going forward doesn't add anything and then he goes on to say where we were bad.

If he says he would never tell the goalkeeper to go forward then why was Martinez forward? Do you think Emery saw Martinez saunter up the pitch and just went “oh well, I would never tell him to do this, I explicitly think this is a bad idea, but I’m just gonna let it happen anyway”. Him stating that he would never tell the goalkeeper to do this implies that its a criticism of Martinez.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by Laughable Chimp

[The_Steve]

13 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

If he says he would never tell the goalkeeper to go forward then why was Martinez forward? Do you think Emery saw Martinez saunter up the pitch and just went “oh well, I would never tell him to do this, I explicitly think this is a bad idea, but I’m just gonna let it happen anyway”. Him stating that he would never tell the goalkeeper to do this implies that its a criticism of Martinez.

 

 

 

 

That was my reading of it. Dibu ignored a tactical instruction and was called out for it, as he should. Cost us a goal for no reason. 

[Tommo_b]

Question for those who think we should cash in…

Who the heck could we replace him with that would be seen as an improvement?

[gwi1890]

Just now, Tommo_b said:

Question for those who think we should cash in…

Who the heck could we replace him with that would be seen as an improvement?

That’s the problem it’s all fine and good throwing names like Unai Simon about (who was dropped the other night for some reason) but how the do we meet his massive release clause? I’m assuming he has one like the previous Athletic club keeper Kepa. We’ll be held ransom by every club. Replacing an outfield is so much easier.

[Rolta]

1 hour ago, The_Steve said:

That was my reading of it. Dibu ignored a tactical instruction and was called out for it, as he should. Cost us a goal for no reason. 

The reason was to try to help us get an equaliser in a last throw of the dice moment—where we could only draw or lose—which is just the same for the other goalkeepers throughout history who did the same.

[bobzy]

1 hour ago, Laughable Chimp said:

If he says he would never tell the goalkeeper to go forward then why was Martinez forward? Do you think Emery saw Martinez saunter up the pitch and just went “oh well, I would never tell him to do this, I explicitly think this is a bad idea, but I’m just gonna let it happen anyway”. Him stating that he would never tell the goalkeeper to do this implies that its a criticism of Martinez.

If Martinez has explicitly ignored Emery telling him to stay back (which is what would happen in this scenario) then he’ll be dropped for the next game. 

[The_Steve]

16 minutes ago, Rolta said:

The reason was to try to help us get an equaliser in a last throw of the dice moment—where we could only draw or lose—which is just the same for the other goalkeepers throughout history who did the same.

But as Unai said, it almost never pays off, hence why he was understandably frustated and mad. 

[Zatman]

28 minutes ago, The_Steve said:

But as Unai said, it almost never pays off, hence why he was understandably frustated and mad. 

Maybe if Digne didnt take such a terrible corner we would not have conceded

Goalkeepers go up all the time and the teams rarely concede. How many did United concede when Schmeichel did it. I remember him causing chaos in the Champions League final doing it

[Keyblade]

It's kind of funny that Emery has said this has never happened to him before when this is actually the 2nd goal Emi's conceded this way at Villa alone if I'm not mistaken. A similar goal was scored at Southampton away back during Deano's tenure.

[Rolta]

48 minutes ago, The_Steve said:

But as Unai said, it almost never pays off, hence why he was understandably frustated and mad. 

Emery just seemed embarrassed by the last few results. I've said it before, but I think he was overreacting—I think it's very human of him to do so, and I love him etc etc.

But a goalkeeper going up for the corner in that situation is something that happens all the time. It didn't cost us the game. We'd already lost. So—so what. It doesn't matter how infrequent it is that a goalkeeper scores. Sometimes they do. Sometimes they don't. It doesn't matter becasue we would have still lost if he hadn't gone up. It's just a nothing, not-important extra goal that we conceded. In the bigger picture it means absolutely nothing—it made no difference to anything.

Emery being annoyed doesn't change any of that.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Rolta

[Rolta]

21 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Maybe if Digne didnt take such a terrible corner we would not have conceded

Goalkeepers go up all the time and the teams rarely concede. How many did United concede when Schmeichel did it. I remember him causing chaos in the Champions League final doing it

And scoring for us against Everton!

[Zatman]

11 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

It's kind of funny that Emery has said this has never happened to him before when this is actually the 2nd goal Emi's conceded this way at Villa alone if I'm not mistaken. A similar goal was scored at Southampton away back during Deano's tenure.

Was Pepe Reina in goal

[Tom13]

On 21/02/2023 at 13:58, The_Steve said:

Hilariously, having double checked, Dermot Gallagher said McGinn's goal was offside. Corruption. No other word.

Brilliant.

[M_Afro]

1 hour ago, Tommo_b said:

Question for those who think we should cash in…

Who the heck could we replace him with that would be seen as an improvement?

This is the question that needs answering. In my view, the reason Villa have been so bad, for so long, is our total inability to operate effectively in the transfer market. In fact, since Doug departed, our transfer activity has been woeful. We’ve had a few hits of course, but how many players have we sold at a profit since 2005? Not many and we must be £100m’s in deficit. Particularly if you exclude Jack who came through our academy.

Don’t get me wrong. I did not like Doug. The only thing that he really loved was of course, Doug. He did though have a pretty reasonable record when it came to buying players. We definitely seemed to have more hits than misses in those days.

The problem with him was his total lack of ambition. Our owners since have all had ambition but they lacked his nous when it came to understanding a player’s value.  This has massively held us back.

Now though, I do think that we have a chance. Unai has serious contacts in the game. He also has history of building successful teams and improving players. If anybody can replace Emi and use any surplus funds to effectively strengthen other areas, then it’s him.

In answer to the question posed, I don’t think we can upgrade Emi. No GK better than him will sign for us but without getting all Purslow about this, we could improve the overall team by selling Emi and re-investing effectively.
 

[Tom13]

Today I learned - Dermot Gallagher fakes his accent

[Tom13]

1 hour ago, The_Steve said:

But as Unai said, it almost never pays off, hence why he was understandably frustated and mad. 

I'd also say they often take up the attackers' space

[TRO]

5 hours ago, thunderball said:

My view is everyone has a price and the club are in a good position to cash in if it helps fund several better players of an aspriational quality that we clearly need to kick on. Without knowing, but assuming we dont have enough headroom under FFP to go as far as we like/need so any windfall, it might suit the club.

The down side is we lose one of our very best players, and we all know spending a big windfall isnt always the golden ticket, but thats not a reason to not invest in next level players. But we have found a player that is the quality we need, it would be a great shame to lose him but we will always suffer better player churn unless we are top 3 or 4.

I do trust Emery, I think those he brings in will work although you can never legislate for things just not clicking with individuals. I dont know if Martinez is the type of player that suits Emery's system, if he isnt then we are better off letting him go while his stock is high.

I think Martinez has been loyal, genuinely likes it here and would happily stay (without a Jack-like will he/wont he every summer) if player and club agreed new terms to put this to bed.

We seen first hand, releasing Jack, and looking to replace him with on par quality, is tough.....we still haven't done it.

What goal keeper with comensurate quality to Emi would come to us?.....Emi's circumstances was unique prior to his arrival, and our success in replacing him, would be low....its a gamble....and we ain't very good at gambles.

[TRO]

3 hours ago, Laughable Chimp said:

If he says he would never tell the goalkeeper to go forward then why was Martinez forward? Do you think Emery saw Martinez saunter up the pitch and just went “oh well, I would never tell him to do this, I explicitly think this is a bad idea, but I’m just gonna let it happen anyway”. Him stating that he would never tell the goalkeeper to do this implies that its a criticism of Martinez.

 

 

 

 

Maybe he thought, I will give him enough rope, and he will hang himself.....I am just speculating, as I don't know.

The game was lost anyway.

but for us to do well, their relationship has to be sound.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Rolta said:

Emery just seemed embarrassed by the last few results. I've said it before, but I think he was overreacting—I think it's very human of him to do so, and I love him etc etc.

But a goalkeeper going up for the corner in that situation is something that happens all the time. It didn't cost us the game. We'd already lost. So—so what. It doesn't matter how infrequent it is that a goalkeeper scores. Sometimes they do. Sometimes they don't. It doesn't matter becasue we would have still lost if he hadn't gone up. It's just a nothing, not-important extra goal that we conceded. In the bigger picture it means absolutely nothing—it made no difference to anything.

Emery being annoyed doesn't change any of that.

He's not on his own.

I also think 2-4 is a tad more embarrassing than 2-3.......one sounds like a tight game, and the other a battering.....perceptions can play a part.

Confidence is a fragile thing to build, and huge scores against evaporates it.

Edited February 22, 2023 by TRO

[AvonVillain]

35 minutes ago, TRO said:

I also think 2-4 is a tad more embarrassing than 2-3.......one sounds like a tight game, and the other a battering.....perceptions can play a part.

Understood, but Martinez's desperation to not lose can't be overlooked. Surely only the manager (if true) would be worrying how this score might look. A last gasp draw would've felt like a win against the league leaders and a roar must have gone up with Martinez going up for the corner. Bloke's a hero. It didn't work out. So be it.