Jareth Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Just now, ViewFromT2 said: He took an incredible amount of stick from Villa fans when he suggested Xia was not all sweetness and light, from the very start of his reign. Xia had a twitter spat with him if you remember?...and to be fair to him, Matt Scott said he wouldn't last 2 years! The problem is he was saying things fans just didn't want to hear after the Lerner charade. I have to say, he is very much more positive about the new owners. It was mostly the way he said it. Had he declared that his source of info was from inside the club he would have had some credibility, though of course he couldn't give up Wyness like that. I've no sympathy for a journalist like this. All that said, he is now in a position where we know he's had the inside track on Villa's finances so it would be stubborn just to ignore the cockwomble. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted July 23, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, ViewFromT2 said: Just seen on Twitter that Matt Scott is on Talksport at 1230 talking Villa. He knows his stuff when it comes to football finances. He has been tweeting recently that he doesn't believe FFP is anything to worry about for us and he thinks the previous regime were hiding behind it. Thinks Villa's FFP problems were from the Lerner era, the last season in particular. Since then the clubs finances are showing signs of improvement. No figures available for last season yet, but think we made a healthy profit on transfers. Might be worth a listen. Cool thanks for the info. Will try and give it a listen even though I vowed to never listen to Talksport again. I like Matt Scott. One of the few who called out Xia for the fraud he is. Edited July 23, 2018 by PieFacE 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 There seems to be some contradiction here. Its ok to say will be fine with FFP as the financial gap will naturally walk off the wage bill over the next 2 years, but still leaves us not being able to strengthen the side which is weaker than the one that failed to get promotion last year... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pintpotvilla Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, Genie said: Have you been to Aston before? The area to a large degree is irrelevant, great swathes of London were very Astonesque 15 years ago and now look at property prices. Milwaukee's Aston type districts have been totally transformed by one of our new owners. They could be looking along those lines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 29 minutes ago, ViewFromT2 said: Just seen on Twitter that Matt Scott is on Talksport at 1230 talking Villa. He knows his stuff when it comes to football finances. He has been tweeting recently that he doesn't believe FFP is anything to worry about for us and he thinks the previous regime were hiding behind it. Thinks Villa's FFP problems were from the Lerner era, the last season in particular. Since then the clubs finances are showing signs of improvement. No figures available for last season yet, but think we made a healthy profit on transfers. Might be worth a listen. Is he the guy that was calling out Xia all this time? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holteend1982 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, Genie said: There seems to be some contradiction here. Its ok to say will be fine with FFP as the financial gap will naturally walk off the wage bill over the next 2 years, but still leaves us not being able to strengthen the side which is weaker than the one that failed to get promotion last year... It's still a very good side even without signings, grealish and kodjia for a full season could be like 2 top signings in itself and no wolves walking the league gives an extra promotion spot. Obviously I would love to see us strengthen but I'd still be expecting a top 6 push with this current bunch of players. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post omariqy Posted July 23, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, Genie said: There seems to be some contradiction here. Its ok to say will be fine with FFP as the financial gap will naturally walk off the wage bill over the next 2 years, but still leaves us not being able to strengthen the side which is weaker than the one that failed to get promotion last year... We need to change our game plan. We can't sign players like Snodgrass and Terry anymore. Our wage bill is the third highest in the history of the Championship and one of those clubs is going to be paying a £40m fine for breaching FFP (QPR). We have to build a squad based on the very best of our academy talent and use scouting and coaching to get players on lower wages. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_b Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 40 million pound fine is pittance for a multi billionaire, to hell with FFP! Let’s do a Wolves! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul33 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 16 minutes ago, Genie said: There seems to be some contradiction here. Its ok to say will be fine with FFP as the financial gap will naturally walk off the wage bill over the next 2 years, but still leaves us not being able to strengthen the side which is weaker than the one that failed to get promotion last year... We failed last season because the TEAM wasn't good enough. The players were more than good enough but we failed to mix the ingredients sufficiently well to bake a good cake. We COULD possibly have a stronger TEAM this season even without the big CVs/names and if Bruce has learned a lesson or two then with Grealish and Kodjia and Chester, we can still make the grade. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan-scott Posted July 23, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted July 23, 2018 12 minutes ago, Zatman said: Is he the guy that was calling out Xia all this time? Yeah he’s the one. Dr Tony really took a dislike to him that’s for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, Paul33 said: We failed last season because the TEAM wasn't good enough. The players were more than good enough but we failed to mix the ingredients sufficiently well to bake a good cake. Team was plenty good enough. Manager killed our chances. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 9 minutes ago, omariqy said: We need to change our game plan. We can't sign players like Snodgrass and Terry anymore. Our wage bill is the third highest in the history of the Championship and one of those clubs is going to be paying a £40m fine for breaching FFP (QPR). We have to build a squad based on the very best of our academy talent and use scouting and coaching to get players on lower wages. Think somebody said that hoovering up young talent from around the world was very much the Milwaukee Bucks MO so it could be they are looking at a similar approach with us. Only issue is that given we are only a few weeks from the start of the season that is a strategy that is going to take time to implement especially when we just sacked the guy supposed to be in charge of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 13 minutes ago, villan-scott said: Yeah he’s the one. Dr Tony really took a dislike to him that’s for sure! I like him then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViewFromT2 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 38 minutes ago, Zatman said: Is he the guy that was calling out Xia all this time? yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 36 minutes ago, omariqy said: We need to change our game plan. We can't sign players like Snodgrass and Terry anymore. Our wage bill is the third highest in the history of the Championship and one of those clubs is going to be paying a £40m fine for breaching FFP (QPR). We have to build a squad based on the very best of our academy talent and use scouting and coaching to get players on lower wages. That's the dream that I don't think anyone apart from the class of '92 have achieved. Losing our high earners/better players and replacing them with youngsters from the academy and also expecting to go up is not a plan that would tempt me as a billionaire investor. There must be more too it as it doesn't stack up as viable or realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 23, 2018 Moderator Share Posted July 23, 2018 27 minutes ago, omariqy said: I did do a brief calculation on here which showed how easily we could get around it. We could legitimately get around £7m in through training ground sponsorship and renaming the ground. We then have £18m to find. Like I said £15m walks out the door next season and the same the season after. We could easily sit down with the league explain our strategy to become profitable. A big chunk of those losses for this year come under Lerner's watch and I am sure the league would listen to a sensible argument from the new owners about how they will make us sustainable. That £18m could be covered easily without selling Jack. However, it all depends on who else we can sell. If we can get rid of some of the following Taylor, Jedi, Lansbury, Whelan, Elphick, Gardner, Tshibola then we could be fine. If we can't then plan B should be to sell one or two of Kodjia, Chester, Adomah or Hourihane. The last option should be to sell Grealish if all else fails. I think this is another overly optimistic post and perhaps at least in part, innacurate. I also think Matt Scott is wrong about FFP not being a worry, or being a smokescreen. We know that FFP works over a rolling 3 year period. We know that for the season just gone we narrowly avoided breaching the rules. We know that for the season approaching our overall rolling allowance for the 3 year window is 22 million smaller than previously .We know that our income from Prem league parachute payments is a further 18 million lower. We know that the EFL rules require the Club not only to comply with the rules, but to act in good faith. We know that this coming season and the 3 year FFP period are all post Lerner ownership. We also know from the accounts that player sales of 20 odd million quid helped with the previous seasons FFP, and we know that transfer fees due to us have been brought forward (and thus count for last season, not this next one, so that's a further gap to be filled). We know that the release of Terry, Snoddy, Johnson et al happened because we could not, this season, afford their wages and loan fees. We know that we could not afford to buy Sam J for 6 million. So we know that this next season we have a 40million hole to fill. Sure, the wages for all those loan players, for Gabby and others are off the slate, and that's a significant help, but nowhere near the 40 million+ that we need to correct. ANd I agree that getting more players with high wages off the books is essential We also know that while we may talk and " the league would listen to a sensible argument from the new owners about how they will make us sustainable" that there's nothing in the FFP rules that offers any such talks as a get out of jail card. Quite the opposite. All clubs have to be treated equally, as far as possible and the integrity of the league has to be maintained - thus sanctioning of exceptionalism for Villa or anyone else is highly unlikely. We know that there are specific clauses in EFL FFP to catch owners and/or related parties "cheating" round the rules by paying OTT for executive boxes, sponsoring things above market value and other such shenanigans. We know that the other 23 Clubs will not want to cede an advantage to Villa and would make representations (see Villa and Leeds moaning about Wolves last season) if there was the hint of something devious. If you're Burton, with tiny gates, or embargoed Small Heath, or Leeds or Wednesday or Sheff Utd. you are absolutely not going to stand for Villa being given a helping hand to beat them over the season. This club has got to be run in such a way as to be sustainable, not to be dependent on owner(s) throwing good money after bad. Get the wages under control, get the structure right, while also being ambitious and proactive in marketing and income generation. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 7 minutes ago, Genie said: That's the dream that I don't think anyone apart from the class of '92 have achieved. Losing our high earners/better players and replacing them with youngsters from the academy and also expecting to go up is not a plan that would tempt me as a billionaire investor. There must be more too it as it doesn't stack up as viable or realistic. I never said purely our academy. The vast majority of clubs who have gone up have not spent mega bucks. There are plenty of talented players in the lower leagues and abroad that we can coach and build a team with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, blandy said: I think this is another overly optimistic post and perhaps at least in part, innacurate. I also think Matt Scott is wrong about FFP not being a worry, or being a smokescreen. We know that FFP works over a rolling 3 year period. We know that for the season just gone we narrowly avoided breaching the rules. We know that for the season approaching our overall rolling allowance for the 3 year window is 22 million smaller than previously .We know that our income from Prem league parachute payments is a further 18 million lower. We know that the EFL rules require the Club not only to comply with the rules, but to act in good faith. We know that this coming season and the 3 year FFP period are all post Lerner ownership. We also know from the accounts that player sales of 20 odd million quid helped with the previous seasons FFP, and we know that transfer fees due to us have been brought forward (and thus count for last season, not this next one, so that's a further gap to be filled). We know that the release of Terry, Snoddy, Johnson et al happened because we could not, this season, afford their wages and loan fees. We know that we could not afford to buy Sam J for 6 million. So we know that this next season we have a 40million hole to fill. Sure, the wages for all those loan players, for Gabby and others are off the slate, and that's a significant help, but nowhere near the 40 million+ that we need to correct. ANd I agree that getting more players with high wages off the books is essential We also know that while we may talk and " the league would listen to a sensible argument from the new owners about how they will make us sustainable" that there's nothing in the FFP rules that offers any such talks as a get out of jail card. Quite the opposite. All clubs have to be treated equally, as far as possible and the integrity of the league has to be maintained - thus sanctioning of exceptionalism for Villa or anyone else is highly unlikely. We know that there are specific clauses in EFL FFP to catch owners and/or related parties "cheating" round the rules by paying OTT for executive boxes, sponsoring things above market value and other such shenanigans. We know that the other 23 Clubs will not want to cede an advantage to Villa and would make representations (see Villa and Leeds moaning about Wolves last season) if there was the hint of something devious. If you're Burton, with tiny gates, or embargoed Small Heath, or Leeds or Wednesday or Sheff Utd. you are absolutely not going to stand for Villa being given a helping hand to beat them over the season. This club has got to be run in such a way as to be sustainable, not to be dependent on owner(s) throwing good money after bad. Get the wages under control, get the structure right, while also being ambitious and proactive in marketing and income generation. I would agree with most of that but what I am saying is that of the £40m say £15m has gone in wages already. The £7m for sponsoring rights is well within the commerciality guidelines and of fair market value. The rest of those decisions I believe were largely based on us having no cash to pay wages or pay fees. £18m is easily achievable and I don't think (obviously I am guessing) the league would give us a severe punishment if we were say £3m out. Selling Chester for £10m for example would wipe £8m off that figure straight away. Jedinak leaving on a free would wipe about £3m off that figure as well. Gardner leaving for say £1.5m would wipe another £2.5m off that figure. It's definitely do-able. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RimmyJimmer Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, PompeyVillan said: I'm not surprised some fans are getting carried away, but to me there has been no indication that our new ownership situation means that suddenly that we're free of the FFP shackles. This fantasy seems to be founded on the basis that the new investors are billionaires. I think it's best not to think this way as the chances are it means nothing. As a club, we're better off being run sustainably, being able to generate our own income and not relying on a sugar daddy arrangement. To me the only tangible benefit of their wealth at this stage is that it is keeping us afloat. Chances are that there is no magic wand, and we will have to suffer a bit because of FFP. Yes I think you are spot on. FFP, as I see it, is solely club turnover versus player expenditure, so suddenly having a pot of cash does not change a thing in this regard. No transfers can be funded by new owners, unless we willingly take the hit next year, so players will still have to be sold. We just don't need that money to stay afloat anymore, it's just a question of covering that 40million transfer black hole. So I fully expect grealish, chester, kodjia, and whoever else can command a decent fee, to be sold. I'm just relieved that this is as bad as it might get, if xia would have held on for grim death and continued his financial gymnastics we could have been at risk of doing a leeds/pompey Edited July 23, 2018 by RimmyJimmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Is it not just adding up the figures below? 2016/17 = £14mill loss 2017/18 = ? - clearly a big push to get promoted but what was the loss? This is the key figure surely - there were a lot of player sales. 2018/19 = whatever it has to be after last season's losses 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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