The economic impact of Covid-19

[HanoiVillan]

47 minutes ago, darrenm said:

This pandemic should have seen UBI instead of various furlough schemes since the start.

The further we go towards the endpoint of capitalism where all capital has moved to the richest with nothing left for the rest, the more progressive thinking needs to come into the mainstream.

Really interesting that Lib Dems are moving to the left of Labour though.

The idea that basic income is 'left' is a misconception. It is merely a tool, and the left-right valence of it would be set by the level of support it offered (ideas vary wildly on this) and the rules around how it was disbursed and who could access it. A government could set a UBI at a meaner level than Universal Credit for instance.

[Straggler]

For those of you who were worried that Covid19 may put the queen in the poor house I have good news. The Royal family are getting a Covid19 bailout.

Rest easy now knowing that she will manage to muddle through.

[chrisp65]

UBI can’t be in it’s own little silo, it needs so much more to happen around it.

Day 1 of everybody getting £10,000 all house prices and rentals would go up because dick for brains people will imagine a world where they can make more profit on someone else’s need to live somewhere.

Day 2 we’ll give Londoners a bit more because they’re good at moaning about living in London.

Day 3 we’ll build another railway to London and need to up everyone’s tax to pay for it. 

Some semblance of equality is simply too big a task for the brains of most politicians in this country.

It would just be 67 million times ‘x’ is too big, ah well never mind, here’s a £300 tax reduction for those already earning a wage, that should help.

 

 

 

[blandy]

17 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

I'm sure a Basic Income thread was created

I don't think so @HanoiVillan, I know I've thought of creating one and somewhere I probably have a load of detailed posts written ready to go. And no, @snowychap you rascal. Honestly, you sh*g one  and no one ever lets you forget it . 

[Chindie]

UBI can be quite a right wing endeavour. In many cases it's suggested as a way of Trojan horsing the deletion of public services. The common misconception is that UBI will be given into a world like we know now. NHS, schools, etc all paid for, plus you have a basic foundational income. But for many of those proposing it, the plan is actually give everyone a foundational income but they pay for everything they need as they need it.

That's a rather less desirable situation.

[blandy]

3 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

UBI can’t be in it’s own little silo, it needs so much more to happen around it.

Definitely. I imagine in the future, with more and more jobs being done by computerbots and robodroids and WFH and loads of jobs sort of disappearing, that some sort of alternative way of providing people with income will be necessary, and governments should be thinking about that now. This corollafungus has probably speeded up the need for new or alternative models. I think problems or potential problems need to be identified and maybe small scale trials of potential solutions looked into now. I don't think UBI is one of them, but that's on the basis of no evidence so far - if evidence came to light, or even detailed, worked, argument and modelling then people could see the results and make better informed judgements.

If jobs become part time as a result of tech or covi, and a UBI was not actually a large sum, but a smaller one, and it's specific aim was to help people who only had part time work (say) then a level could be calculated, various sums done and the costed mean of funding for it detailed etc. But I think it would help (me, at least) to understand the specific problem(s) it's proponents seek to solve with it, for them to explain the pros and cons and mechanics and so on (I don't mean posters one here, I mean, in this case the LDs). One thing that almost never happens with party policies is the party saying "this is what we want to do, these are the upsides, these are the downsides and these are the potential areas of risk, areas where consequence will need to be monitored and possible changes made...etc - I mean for simple things that's not necessary or realistic, but complex policy such as changing the tax, benefits, societal and other systems needs far more that "as Greens/LDs we propose this UBI policy and it'll be good - vote for us" - and when they do just that, it's entirely reasonable for interviewers or whoever to ask "67 million times ‘x’ is too big, isn't it?"

[chrisp65]

Right now, we’re losing whole trenches of traditionally low skilled and blue collar jobs.

Office cleaners and bar staff are losing out, but right now Rushi & Co can offer them a shot at getting a job somewhere in the Amazon chain. But Amazon are already working on taking that nuisance out of their chain.

But yeah, when a government in March, can’t see a problem with exams in July, I can’t really expect them to be planning for the year 2028.

But 2028 is coming, whether Johnson realises it or not, or cares or not. So there really should be some huge cross party thinking.

 

[darrenm]

38 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

The idea that basic income is 'left' is a misconception. It is merely a tool, and the left-right valence of it would be set by the level of support it offered (ideas vary wildly on this) and the rules around how it was disbursed and who could access it. A government could set a UBI at a meaner level than Universal Credit for instance.

Hmm yeah, I've always seen it as a left thing because it's progressive thinking and, you know, gives people money which is what the right think the left want to do so is very definitely not right.

But I can see the arguments for it being not left either.

[Xela]

@HanoiVillan - you didn't imagine it

 

 

[snowychap]

31 minutes ago, Xela said:

@HanoiVillan - you didn't imagine it

Good work.

[PaulC]

how much money has been been lost to criminal gangs on this bounce back loan scheme! Its shocking that this was allowed to happen. 

[Demitri_C]

I think shits really going to hit the fan in the next 6 months. We already seeing some if it. Its going to get a lot worse.

I do think we will see alot of people immigrating in next few years

[snowychap]

3 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I do think we will see alot of people immigrating in next few years

Not if I get my way.

[HanoiVillan]

19 minutes ago, snowychap said:

Not if I get my way.

Could use at least three of the reaction emojis here.

[OutByEaster?]

3 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

I think shits really going to hit the fan in the next 6 months. We already seeing some if it. Its going to get a lot worse.

Economically, I don't think we've seen anything yet. After 31st October we'll start to see a huge wave of redundancies and the ripples of that through the economy - mortgage deferrals, less high street spending etc - followed by no deal Brexit in January and whatever that brings. There's an horrendous few years ahead.

 

[darrenm]

44 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Economically, I don't think we've seen anything yet. After 31st October we'll start to see a huge wave of redundancies and the ripples of that through the economy - mortgage deferrals, less high street spending etc - followed by no deal Brexit in January and whatever that brings. There's an horrendous few years ahead.

 

Oh and the ice caps are melting and every year breaks records for the hottest yet

[Davkaus]

50 minutes ago, darrenm said:

Oh and the ice caps are melting and every year breaks records for the hottest yet

I do keep looking at the money I put in to my pension each month and laughing at my optimism.

Edited September 29, 2020 by Davkaus

[bickster]

More redundancies at work today. Some of the staff that were still furloughed are now jobless. At least one of them has survived as he's due back into the IT team and I don't know the rest but I suspect it's the majority which would include 4 managers, three of whom I've worked with for 2 decades

Survived but it's getting rather worryingly close now

[Davkaus]

My place are still hiring, and offering unlimited overtime, which I am absolutely rinsing and stashing away in case the wind turns. 

[Genie]

22 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

My place are still hiring, and offering unlimited overtime, which I am absolutely rinsing and stashing away in case the wind turns. 

Which industry is this?

Edited September 29, 2020 by Genie