Pre-Match Thread

[Rob182]

11 hours ago, KentVillan said:

I think he’s shown before that he can coach a defence, certainly towards the back end of last season we were defensively solid. What DS isn’t up for doing is the Bruce tactic of parking the bus and praying for a 1-0 against the run of play.

There is definitely a valid argument that the Bruce approach works better for survival, although Bruce has the advantage of having some real quality attackers on the counter attack, which we don’t really have (Grealish is more of a front foot player).

So I’d say if Dean squeaks it this year, we give him a bit more to work with (a proper DM for a start) and let him have another crack. I think in more of a mid table contest, Dean’s style of football will come to seem less naive, as once you’re away from the relegation battle, it does make more sense to play for the win in most matches.

But I can see this season why people fret about whether his approach is sensible. The only thing I’d say in his defence is I just don’t think he’s had the personnel to pull off what Bruce has managed at Newcastle. We have no real pace in attack, and our midfield is weak (especially with McGinn injured).

An excellent post. Reality, without delusion.

I've seen some posts about how we would have been better grinding out results, keeping a clean sheet over attacking flair, being tough to beat and sacrificing possession to do so, but then where does that leave Grealish?

Our best academy graduate for decades (or... ever?), would become a bit-part player, either picking up scraps in central-midfield, or picking up scraps on the wing.

Does anyone genuinely think that us parking the bus, and having 25-35% possession, would have seen us further up the table, when our best-by-far player would probably be playing much like he did against Man City, where we had a similar percentage of possession?

Maybe we could have made it work, if we'd had bought fewer players and spent more on a central defender (ie: £20m on someone instead of £12m on Konsa), or maybe we should have brought in some speed-merchant winger to relieve pressure, like an Adama Traore. But, we've done that before, and where did it get us? Relegated in poor fashion, losing players for a pittance because they didn't show enough to earn rave reviews. (I can't even contemplate what would have happened to us if we'd have bought fewer players and had an injury crisis like we've had this season).

What will happen if we go down this season, after playing good football but leaking goals in the process? We'll probably sell Grealish, Mings and McGinn for a combined £150m+. Long term, and simplistically, that seems like a better plan than trying to scrape survival by playing defensively, with no guarantee that it would succeed, and having a manager that has always played on the front-foot.

Some people are in dreamland. I imagine they're the same people that thought that we should have sacked Smith and brought in Rafa when we got promoted. Heck, why stop there? Why not also fantasize that we could spend £400m on new signings, and open Dr Tony's theme park.

Anyway - onto the Leicester game. We'll go 1-0 up in the first half, then 2-0 in the second. They'll get one back and we'll play the remainder of the game in squeaky bum territory, but we'll come out with a 2-1 win.

[Blasterpocket68]

27 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

An excellent post. Reality, without delusion.

I've seen some posts about how we would have been better grinding out results, keeping a clean sheet over attacking flair, being tough to beat and sacrificing possession to do so, but then where does that leave Grealish?

Our best academy graduate for decades (or... ever?), would become a bit-part player, either picking up scraps in central-midfield, or picking up scraps on the wing.

Does anyone genuinely think that us parking the bus, and having 25-35% possession, would have seen us further up the table, when our best-by-far player would probably be playing much like he did against Man City, where we had a similar percentage of possession?

Maybe we could have made it work, if we'd had bought fewer players and spent more on a central defender (ie: £20m on someone instead of £12m on Konsa), or maybe we should have brought in some speed-merchant winger to relieve pressure, like an Adama Traore. But, we've done that before, and where did it get us? Relegated in poor fashion, losing players for a pittance because they didn't show enough to earn rave reviews. (I can't even contemplate what would have happened to us if we'd have bought fewer players and had an injury crisis like we've had this season).

What will happen if we go down this season, after playing good football but leaking goals in the process? We'll probably sell Grealish, Mings and McGinn for a combined £150m+. Long term, and simplistically, that seems like a better plan than trying to scrape survival by playing defensively, with no guarantee that it would succeed, and having a manager that has always played on the front-foot.

Some people are in dreamland. I imagine they're the same people that thought that we should have sacked Smith and brought in Rafa when we got promoted. Heck, why stop there? Why not also fantasize that we could spend £400m on new signings, and open Dr Tony's theme park.

Anyway - onto the Leicester game. We'll go 1-0 up in the first half, then 2-0 in the second. They'll get one back and we'll play the remainder of the game in squeaky bum territory, but we'll come out with a 2-1 win.

I actually think relegation this year would be a disaster and avoidable. There is an awful lot of poor teams around us , had the coach been a little more defence minded as a team we could and should have picked up sufficient points to be out side of trouble. He hasnt and if were very honest were in serious trouble with out the paddle. Starting again next season in the championship  without the above mentioned players will see us, i fear dwell in the championship for a few years given the current  squad and standard of recruitment. 

[AVFCDAN]

12 hours ago, KentVillan said:

I think he’s shown before that he can coach a defence, certainly towards the back end of last season we were defensively solid. What DS isn’t up for doing is the Bruce tactic of parking the bus and praying for a 1-0 against the run of play.

There is definitely a valid argument that the Bruce approach works better for survival, although Bruce has the advantage of having some real quality attackers on the counter attack, which we don’t really have (Grealish is more of a front foot player).

So I’d say if Dean squeaks it this year, we give him a bit more to work with (a proper DM for a start) and let him have another crack. I think in more of a mid table contest, Dean’s style of football will come to seem less naive, as once you’re away from the relegation battle, it does make more sense to play for the win in most matches.

But I can see this season why people fret about whether his approach is sensible. The only thing I’d say in his defence is I just don’t think he’s had the personnel to pull off what Bruce has managed at Newcastle. We have no real pace in attack, and our midfield is weak (especially with McGinn injured).

This is spot on for me.

[Rob182]

18 minutes ago, Blasterpocket68 said:

I actually think relegation this year would be a disaster and avoidable. There is an awful lot of poor teams around us , had the coach been a little more defence minded as a team we could and should have picked up sufficient points to be out side of trouble. He hasnt and if were very honest were in serious trouble with out the paddle. Starting again next season in the championship  without the above mentioned players will see us, i fear dwell in the championship for a few years given the current  squad and standard of recruitment. 

We were always going to be fighting a losing battle with the state our squad was in last season, and the rebuilding job we had to do.

There were very few feasible fixes to that situation. One of the common suggestions of what we could have done, was to bring in someone like a Gary Cahill. But he went to Palace who are able to pay him much higher wages, plus there was nothing to say he wouldn't have been a Lescott/Richards type signing.

We could easily have set up in a more defence-minded fashion, and still leaked goals through pressure/ inexperience/ individual errors/ low quality of personnel. That problem never goes away when you need to bring in 10-15 players with limited money to spend.

[Stevo985]

4 hours ago, rjw63 said:

I'll believe that when I see the official team sheet at about 7pm tonight

The same guy was the first to break the no Vardy news last week and he was right.

Certainly the FPL community are taking this as pretty solid information.

 

It's good news for us if it's true.

[handsworthvilla]

1 hour ago, Rob182 said:

An excellent post. Reality, without delusion.

I've seen some posts about how we would have been better grinding out results, keeping a clean sheet over attacking flair, being tough to beat and sacrificing possession to do so, but then where does that leave Grealish?

Our best academy graduate for decades (or... ever?), would become a bit-part player, either picking up scraps in central-midfield, or picking up scraps on the wing.

Does anyone genuinely think that us parking the bus, and having 25-35% possession, would have seen us further up the table, when our best-by-far player would probably be playing much like he did against Man City, where we had a similar percentage of possession?

Maybe we could have made it work, if we'd had bought fewer players and spent more on a central defender (ie: £20m on someone instead of £12m on Konsa), or maybe we should have brought in some speed-merchant winger to relieve pressure, like an Adama Traore. But, we've done that before, and where did it get us? Relegated in poor fashion, losing players for a pittance because they didn't show enough to earn rave reviews. (I can't even contemplate what would have happened to us if we'd have bought fewer players and had an injury crisis like we've had this season).

What will happen if we go down this season, after playing good football but leaking goals in the process? We'll probably sell Grealish, Mings and McGinn for a combined £150m+. Long term, and simplistically, that seems like a better plan than trying to scrape survival by playing defensively, with no guarantee that it would succeed, and having a manager that has always played on the front-foot.

Some people are in dreamland. I imagine they're the same people that thought that we should have sacked Smith and brought in Rafa when we got promoted. Heck, why stop there? Why not also fantasize that we could spend £400m on new signings, and open Dr Tony's theme park.

Anyway - onto the Leicester game. We'll go 1-0 up in the first half, then 2-0 in the second. They'll get one back and we'll play the remainder of the game in squeaky bum territory, but we'll come out with a 2-1 win.

Spot on

Ironically, the same people calling for Smiths head due to his positive/open approach are probably the same ones who called for Bruce's head due to his negative/closed approach. If Villa were in Newcastles position now with Steve Bruce in charge, I guarantee there would be significant numbers calling for his head due to the lack of goals / excitement / mediocrity. You really can't win 

The vast majority turned on Bruce and called for an attack minded coach. We get an attack minded coach, he takes us up, we playing attacking football (with the consequences that come with that approach) and now suddenly the grass is greener and we should be parking the bus again. Baffling

[supermon]

Just have to contain Iheanacho and Maddison and I reckon we can beat these lot. Maddison looked like he could have had 5 goals the last time we played him, Nakamba will have to do a job on him.  

Commonn Villa, we can take these lot!  UTV

[thunderball]

11 minutes ago, supermon said:

Just have to contain Iheanacho and Maddison and I reckon we can beat these lot. Maddison looked like he could have had 5 goals the last time we played him, Nakamba will have to do a job on him.  

Commonn Villa, we can take these lot!  UTV

....and Vardy?

[VillaChris]

Vardy apparently declared himself fit so can't seee Rodgers putting him as a sub given they're not winning.

[TheMelvillan]

To everyone going to the game tonight:

a) fair play to you all

b) im incredibly jealous

c) please please sing your hearts out. this game is massive and us unfortunates stuck at home want to hear you lot live on telly outsinging the lesster fans. Our team isnt as good theirs on paper so we need the fans to be the twelfth man (or even 11th man depending on what el ghazi shows up tonight)

[rbcuk]

According to someone that’s close to Leicester as he’s been correct the last couple of team announcements that he’s released

No Chilwell, No Perez, No Vardy. 

Justin, Albrighton, Iheanacho the replacements

[Lord Willard]

38 minutes ago, rbcuk said:

According to someone that’s close to Leicester as he’s been correct the last couple of team announcements that he’s released

No Chilwell, No Perez, No Vardy. 

Justin, Albrighton, Iheanacho the replacements

Iheanacho is like Shane Long in the fact they always score and play well against us.

Without the threat of Vardy, we need  to go 433. 3 in midfielder with Nakamba man marking Madison out of the game would be nice. 

[Lord Willard]

Also having Samatta is a massive improvement to us.

[romavillan]

Albrighton own goal hat-trick would be just what the doctor ordered.

[TRO]

14 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

I wouldn't exactly say Palace and Burnley are equal to us in stature. It's a simple request, we need to be more intense defensively. We have to develop that, " they shall not pass mentality ".

I meant in potential league position, not club size....without doubt our club is much bigger.

[Herman22]

1 hour ago, rbcuk said:

According to someone that’s close to Leicester as he’s been correct the last couple of team announcements that he’s released

No Chilwell, No Perez, No Vardy. 

Justin, Albrighton, Iheanacho the replacements

If that's true I'll be very happy. As good as they have been I think their defense can be got at. I'd be tempted to go 4-4-2 and get someone close to Samatta, I just worry Davis doesn't have even 70 mins in him at the moment. 

Reina

Elmo Engels Mings Targett

ElGhazi Luiz Nakemba Grealish

Samtta Davis

[Tom13]

4 hours ago, Rob182 said:

and open Dr Tony's theme park.

It's a good job you didn't give him this idea when he was at the wheel.

[TRO]

4 hours ago, Rob182 said:

An excellent post. Reality, without delusion.

I've seen some posts about how we would have been better grinding out results, keeping a clean sheet over attacking flair, being tough to beat and sacrificing possession to do so, but then where does that leave Grealish?

Our best academy graduate for decades (or... ever?), would become a bit-part player, either picking up scraps in central-midfield, or picking up scraps on the wing.

Does anyone genuinely think that us parking the bus, and having 25-35% possession, would have seen us further up the table, when our best-by-far player would probably be playing much like he did against Man City, where we had a similar percentage of possession?

Maybe we could have made it work, if we'd had bought fewer players and spent more on a central defender (ie: £20m on someone instead of £12m on Konsa), or maybe we should have brought in some speed-merchant winger to relieve pressure, like an Adama Traore. But, we've done that before, and where did it get us? Relegated in poor fashion, losing players for a pittance because they didn't show enough to earn rave reviews. (I can't even contemplate what would have happened to us if we'd have bought fewer players and had an injury crisis like we've had this season).

What will happen if we go down this season, after playing good football but leaking goals in the process? We'll probably sell Grealish, Mings and McGinn for a combined £150m+. Long term, and simplistically, that seems like a better plan than trying to scrape survival by playing defensively, with no guarantee that it would succeed, and having a manager that has always played on the front-foot.

Some people are in dreamland. I imagine they're the same people that thought that we should have sacked Smith and brought in Rafa when we got promoted. Heck, why stop there? Why not also fantasize that we could spend £400m on new signings, and open Dr Tony's theme park.

Anyway - onto the Leicester game. We'll go 1-0 up in the first half, then 2-0 in the second. They'll get one back and we'll play the remainder of the game in squeaky bum territory, but we'll come out with a 2-1 win.

You said it.

In an attempt by some to highlight our shortfalls of being easy to beat.....you go off an a complete tangent and go from one extreme to the other.....no one in my opinion has suggested what you are claiming.

Playing an offensive game with a complete respect for the opposition, in terms of denying them initiative, is not parking the bus.....I don't know of 1 poster on here that has suggested us parking the bus, you have invented that in your defence of the criticism, which just about every pundit in the media has endorsed....Wolves do an excellent job of it, they do both with aplomb, thats what some of us are suggesting we do, improve the defensive side of our game.....NOT PLAY DEFENSIVELY as you have conveniently  interpreted.

I was equally frustrated, with Steve Bruces offerings, but in the quite opposite manner, equally as frustrated with Dean Smiths, in ability to close down opposing teams, deny them space and make them work harder for everything they get....blimey shane long must have an orgasm the night before he plays us.....such is the space we offer him.

Wolves for all the praise they have had with their Offensive prowess, have conceded a miserly 34 goals, thats how much emphasis they put on that side of the job.....you don't have to forfeit the spectacle to be able to defend, that is a misguided myth.

The Jack Grealish comment, baffles me, how you can deduce he could not play in a team with a better approach to defending is mind blowing........possible links Chelsea conceded 39, Liverpool conceded 21, Man City conceded 29, Man Utd conceded 30.....do they park the bus?

Now I know you will adjust your argument to say they are better teams...yes they are, but they defend too, without parking the bus......and Jack would fit in to them teams with ease, but we don't want him to go, but if we keep conceding at the rate of 52 to date......He surely will.

Here, I will say it again until it might sink in......We want to be able to defend better without parking the bus.

 

 

Edited March 9, 2020 by TRO

[romavillan]

21 minutes ago, Herman22 said:

If that's true I'll be very happy. As good as they have been I think their defense can be got at. I'd be tempted to go 4-4-2 and get someone close to Samatta, I just worry Davis doesn't have even 70 mins in him at the moment. 

Reina

Elmo Engels Mings Targett

ElGhazi Luiz Nakemba Grealish

Samtta Davis

If you want to go 2 up top we'd need a narrow 4 in the middle and get width from the full backs.

 

Reina

Guilbert Engels Mings Targett

Drinkwater Luiz Nakamba

Grealish

Samatta Davis

 

Can't see a drastic change in shape though unless they've been working on something new since the final.

 

[TRO]

4 hours ago, Blasterpocket68 said:

I actually think relegation this year would be a disaster and avoidable. There is an awful lot of poor teams around us , had the coach been a little more defence minded as a team we could and should have picked up sufficient points to be out side of trouble. He hasnt and if were very honest were in serious trouble with out the paddle. Starting again next season in the championship  without the above mentioned players will see us, i fear dwell in the championship for a few years given the current  squad and standard of recruitment. 

Reality, without Rose tinted glasses.