VillaFaninLondon Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 15 minutes ago, BOF said: Unfortunately yes they are, now... We made them the games that will define our season when we let Southampton and poxy Bournemouth do the double over us. We made them the games to define our season when we dropped points against Palace, West Ham, Burnley, Watford and Brighton. Teams we 'needed to beat', but didn't beat. We excused our late **** ups against Spurs, Liverpool & Arsenal because 'oh well, we're not supposed to win those games anyway and it would have been a bonus' all while the likes of Norwich on their day were somehow managing to beat Man City, Watford were hammering Liverpool and Man Utd and Wolves, Bournemouth were beating Man Utd and Chelsea, Burnley were beating Man Utd and Leicester. All games that 'don't define their seasons' either, but they were winning them nonetheless. We are THE only side in the division who have no significant scalp this season. Add that to all the lower sides we've failed to take care of. We are running out of the type of opponents that you say define our season, because we've already played them and not beaten enough of them, and now we're mostly left with the likes of Leicester. We need to start upsetting some of the sides higher up the division this season or we will not be staying up. Thankfully I think John McGinn will be crucial to that end, and the sooner he's back the better. But unfortunately we no longer have the luxury of accepting defeat to sides like Leicester just because they're much higher in the league. Our problem is most sides are. Exactly this. Every game we have to go in looking to win now. We need a minimum of four wins to have a chance imo and the sooner we start getting those wins the better, regardless of whether they 're against sides in and around or us or sides nearer the top. Leicester aren't exactly flying at the moment and Watford, Norwich, Burnley and Southampton have all beaten sides they weren't expected to beat this season, so it's about bloomin time we did the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, BOF said: And where do the 3 draws come from? Games against the likes of Leicester. Which is precisely my point. These games now define our season. If he just park the bus against Wolves that should be doable. Wolves are a purely counter attacking side if you deny them that they'll struggle. They've drawn twice against Newcastle this season why do you think that is? I feel Sheff Utd is a bit of the same. They aren't the most free flowing attacking side in the league. Man Utd at home is my last hope. They are so inconsistent it's unbelievable and we drew at OT Edited March 5, 2020 by villalad21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted March 5, 2020 Moderator Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 minute ago, villalad21 said: If he just park the bus against Wolves that should be doable. Wolves are a purely counter attacking side if you deny them that they'll struggle. They've drawn twice against Newcastle this season why do you think that is? I feel Sheff Utd is a bit of the same. They aren't the most free flowing attacking side in the league. Man Utd at home is my last hope. They are so inconsistent it's unbelievable and we drew at OT I know agreeing can be hard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 8 minutes ago, BOF said: I know agreeing can be hard You honestly see this as a must win game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted March 5, 2020 Moderator Share Posted March 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, villalad21 said: You honestly see this as a must win game? You're not reading my posts properly. No-one has ever said this game is must-win. You said games like this don't define our season. I explained why it does. That doesn't make it must win. It means we have to start getting something from these types of game. Even your own formula requires 3 draws from the tougher teams on the assumption we win the easy 3, and even you have Man Utd as your last hope for one of those 3 draws. Even though sides like Man Utd allegedly don't define our season. So you've now started disagreeing with your own premise 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 minute ago, BOF said: You're not reading my posts properly. No-one has ever said this game is must-win. You said games like this don't define our season. I explained why it does. That doesn't make it must win. It means we have to start getting something from these types of game. Even your own formula requires 3 draws from the tougher teams on the assumption we win the easy 3, and even you have Man Utd as your last hope for one of those 3 draws. Even though sides like Man Utd allegedly don't define our season. So you've now started disagreeing with your own premise I don't put Man Utd in the same realm of Leicester. Leicester is a much better coached side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 5, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted March 5, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, villalad21 said: If he just park the bus against Wolves that should be doable. Wolves are a purely counter attacking side if you deny them that they'll struggle. They've drawn twice against Newcastle this season why do you think that is? I don't know how you come to the conclusion that Wolves is more of a game to target than leicester. Despite their league position, Leicester have been poor for a while. 1 win in their last 7, including losses vs Norwich, Burnley and Southampton. Their only win in that time was against a woeful West Ham side. They also lost to a certain Aston Villa in the cup They've also only kept one clean sheet in that time. They can clearly be got at and beaten by sides around our level at the moment. Wolves have only lost 1 of their last 8, which was to Liverpool. Edited March 5, 2020 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted March 5, 2020 Moderator Share Posted March 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, villalad21 said: I don't put Man Utd in the same realm of Leicester. Leicester is a much better coached side. Ah right, so when we came up last summer it wasn't games against the Leicester Citys that were going to define our season. It was games against the likes of Manchester United that would. A team fifth in the league and 2 places below Leicester, which also presumably brings 7th place Spurs into the equation too, making their double over us another shitshow to throw on the pile. I understand now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, BOF said: Ah right, so when we came up last summer it wasn't games against the Leicester Citys that were going to define our season. It was games against the likes of Manchester United that would. A team fifth in the league and 2 places below Leicester, which also presumably brings 7th place Spurs into the equation too, making their double over us another shitshow to throw on the pile. I understand now. No one could foresee the horror show Man Utd have been this season. Nor what Leicester have done. Of course expectations and so called "winnable" games can change as the season progresses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted March 5, 2020 Moderator Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 minute ago, villalad21 said: No one could foresee the horror show Man Utd have been this season. Nor what Leicester have done. Of course expectations and so called "winnable" games can change as the season progresses. Or even as an afternoon discussion progresses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 5, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted March 5, 2020 11 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Of course expectations and so called "winnable" games can change as the season progresses. Quite... 19 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I don't know how you come to the conclusion that Wolves is more of a game to target than leicester. Despite their league position, Leicester have been poor for a while. 1 win in their last 7, including losses vs Norwich, Burnley and Southampton. Their only win in that time was against a woeful West Ham side. They also lost to a certain Aston Villa in the cup They've also only kept one clean sheet in that time. They can clearly be got at and beaten by sides around our level at the moment. Wolves have only lost 1 of their last 8, which was to Liverpool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 The results of the other games this weekend will play a part in determining how much of a must win game this is, if those games go against us we could find ourselves five points adrift of safety, in which case this probably becomes a must win. Either way we've just lost four games in a row so could do with a result just to arrest that run of form, would be a perfect time for us to finally win our first game against top eight opposition in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 minute ago, useless said: The results of the other games this weekend will play a part in determining how much of a must win game this is, if those games go against us we could find ourselves five points adrift of safety, in which case this probably becomes a must win. Either way we've just lost four games in a row so could do with a result just to arrest that run of form, would be a perfect time for us to finally win our first game against top eight opposition in the league. I don't look at other teams. My eyes are set on the point per game average. We do that we survive. Currently we're only 1 win off that target. We're 2 pts off that and we need to get back on track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 Excellent point, if we do what we need to do then it won't matter what anyone else does. Hopefully we can go on a good run from now onwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurru991 Posted March 5, 2020 Visiting Supporter Share Posted March 5, 2020 42 minutes ago, useless said: Excellent point, if we do what we need to do then it won't matter what anyone else does. Hopefully we can go on a good run from now onwards. Make other clubs worry about Villa not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyexists Posted March 5, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted March 5, 2020 I think we really, really need to win this one as it will help with confidence and form. I wouldn’t say ‘must win’ but it’s pretty bloody important to get something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddytheVillan Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 (edited) Our previous results mean that a game where a point should suffice needs to be a win. You can thank the results / performances vs Southampton (twice), Bournemouth (twice), Watford etc for that. Team should more or less pick itself. Switching back to a 433 should benefit us, it's clear Smith was never fully on board with 3/5 at the back. Reina Guilbert Engels Mings Targett Nakamba Hourihane Luiz Grealish Samatta El Ghazi Edited March 5, 2020 by PaddytheVillan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, PaddytheVillan said: Our previous results mean that a game where a point should suffice needs to be a win. You can thank the results / performances vs Southampton (twice), Bournemouth (twice), Watford etc for that. Team should more or less pick itself. Switching back to a 433 should benefit us, it's clear Smith was never fully on board with 3/5 at the back. Reina Guilbert Engels Mings Targett Nakamba Hourihane Luiz Grealish Samatta El Ghazi I'd play Elmo over Guilbert. We need his crossing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeVillan Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 2 hours ago, BOF said: Unfortunately yes they are, now... We made them the games that will define our season when we let Southampton and poxy Bournemouth do the double over us. We made them the games to define our season when we dropped points against Palace, West Ham, Burnley, Watford and Brighton. Teams we 'needed to beat', but didn't beat. We excused our late **** ups against Spurs, Liverpool & Arsenal because 'oh well, we're not supposed to win those games anyway and it would have been a bonus' all while the likes of Norwich on their day were somehow managing to beat Man City, Watford were hammering Liverpool and Man Utd and Wolves, Bournemouth were beating Man Utd and Chelsea, Burnley were beating Man Utd and Leicester. All games that 'don't define their seasons' either, but they were winning them nonetheless. We are THE only side in the division who have no significant scalp this season. Add that to all the lower sides we've failed to take care of. We are running out of the type of opponents that you say define our season, because we've already played them and not beaten enough of them, and now we're mostly left with the likes of Leicester. We need to start upsetting some of the sides higher up the division this season or we will not be staying up. Thankfully I think John McGinn will be crucial to that end, and the sooner he's back the better. But unfortunately we no longer have the luxury of accepting defeat to sides like Leicester just because they're much higher in the league. Our problem is most sides are. I couldn't have put it better myself. It seems that every week one of the better teams loses points to our relegation rivals. It's a really crazy season for upsets, it's just a shame we can't seem to hold on for any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddytheVillan Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 21 minutes ago, villalad21 said: I'd play Elmo over Guilbert. We need his crossing. Yeah perhaps. It's a tough call, Guilbert is much more energetic and better at tackling, but Elmo's crossing, marking and positioning is better at present. Suspect Smith might go your way, he certainly seems to trust Elmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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