Carney Chukwuemeka

[barry'sboots]

11 minutes ago, AvonVillain said:

I think I might be just continuing a moot point to some degree, but if I was in the position of this lad I'd jump at the chance to go abroad and play regularly. Even more so given the current management style and potential transfer business in the summer.

You live in the South West though so you're used to being miles away from where it is happening!

Most of these boys have never been away and living in Germany would be a huge cultural shock at the age of 18-19.  Sure, it has worked for Sancho and Bellingham - to an extent (Sancho is hardly ripping up trees at Man U) BUT staying has also worked for Foden and JJ and staying with your parent and getting good loans has certainly worked for Mount and Gallagher.

I don't think there is a right or wrong way to go.  It will depend upon the individual and their own preferences.  I would think, for most, Villa is as good a place to be as anywhere at the minute ... great owners, seemingly good hierarchy, great resources, seemingly good team mates, a team that is progressing but without the pressure of, say, Man Utd and a manager that demands instant respect after what he has done in the game but also seems like a good manager to work under. 

[Steero113]

1 hour ago, barry'sboots said:

You live in the South West though so you're used to being miles away from where it is happening!

Most of these boys have never been away and living in Germany would be a huge cultural shock at the age of 18-19.  Sure, it has worked for Sancho and Bellingham - to an extent (Sancho is hardly ripping up trees at Man U) BUT staying has also worked for Foden and JJ and staying with your parent and getting good loans has certainly worked for Mount and Gallagher.

I don't think there is a right or wrong way to go.  It will depend upon the individual and their own preferences.  I would think, for most, Villa is as good a place to be as anywhere at the minute ... great owners, seemingly good hierarchy, great resources, seemingly good team mates, a team that is progressing but without the pressure of, say, Man Utd and a manager that demands instant respect after what he has done in the game but also seems like a good manager to work under. 

Fella, you and I both know that the South West is where it's at. 

I mean, come on. You ever been to Broadwoodwidger? Samford Courtney? Widecombe in the Moor... hell... Woolfardisworthy??

Don't act like the guy lives in the polar regions, we all know he's really at the centre of the god damned world. 

[mallett]

One thing which I think is missing in this conversation is that we haven’t discussed the fact that Carney hasn’t really kicked on this season in the way he looked like he was going to last season.
 

He was the standout player in the FA Youth cup win. In the first team however he hasn’t actually really shown us what he has got. At his best at youth level he destroys teams with his attacking play. At senior level that side of his game hasn’t really featured. More worryingly his defensive game looks lackadaisical and ineffective when in flashes he shows that he has the physical attributes to do much better. There was only that one substitute appearance when he put his foot in and helped change the game.

So I guess my point is that from Carney’s side he needs to feel that he is going to kick on as a player at Villa to sign a new contract and at the moment that isn’t really happening to the degree it should be.

[tomav84]

On 28/03/2022 at 07:28, Laughable Chimp said:

Tier 1 is supposed to mean almost always correct. So essentially, yes.

 

tier 1 based on whose opinion? the avfc faithful twitter account? it's just a fan account and frankly from what i've seen looks like it's run by a 12 year old

[DaveAV1]

23 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

tier 1 based on whose opinion? the avfc faithful twitter account? it's just a fan account and frankly from what i've seen looks like it's run by a 12 year old

He’s 13 now, so I think you’ll find that there’s not much he doesn’t know about the world. 

[samjp26]

I think with buying/paying to take youth players from other academies (Carney was from Northampton), we have to be realistic in understanding some of the better talents may be then pinched from us just as we pinched them in the first place.

His brother can’t get a game in the SPL for whatever reason, so I can’t see another team taking him with Carney as we did, however it is an option I guess if he we were to move abroad to help him settle.

I really like him and he’s got a lot of talent, the most out of our younger lads IMO, but it seems this whole contract situation has stifled his development. If he signed and got his head down I have no doubt he would be utilised better with the first team, but Gerrard isn’t going to do that with a player that plans to leave, and rightly so too.

[barry'sboots]

13 hours ago, Steero113 said:

Fella, you and I both know that the South West is where it's at. 

I mean, come on. You ever been to Broadwoodwidger? Samford Courtney? Widecombe in the Moor... hell... Woolfardisworthy??

Don't act like the guy lives in the polar regions, we all know he's really at the centre of the god damned world. 

Oh ah me lover!!

I went to Exeter University - a long time ago - and that must have been the most used phrase from the dinner ladies when I was in hall!

[nick76]

1 hour ago, barry'sboots said:

Oh ah me lover!!

I went to Exeter University - a long time ago - and that must have been the most used phrase from the dinner ladies when I was in hall!

So you were a granny chaser when you were at Uni, flirting with dinner ladies…

[barry'sboots]

9 minutes ago, nick76 said:

So you were a granny chaser when you were at Uni, flirting with dinner ladies…

Still am ... its just that they're just the same age as me now!!

[ShaldonAVFC]

16 hours ago, Steero113 said:

Fella, you and I both know that the South West is where it's at. 

I mean, come on. You ever been to Broadwoodwidger? Samford Courtney? Widecombe in the Moor... hell... Woolfardisworthy??

Don't act like the guy lives in the polar regions, we all know he's really at the centre of the god damned world. 

Clyst  st Mary  is up there 

[The_Steve]

20 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

We don't know what Dortmund's 'plan' vis-a-vis our youth player is, given we have no idea whether they're interested in the first place. Yes, there are 'links' but anyone can make a 'link'.

Anyone reading this forum could be forgiven for expecting half our academy to be in Bundesliga starting XIs next season.

It feels like an easy stick to beat the club with despite NWSE making our academy one of the best across most European leagues. 
 

Time will tell. I hope he stays and unless the situation changes I will continue to do so. 

[OutByEaster?]

4 hours ago, samjp26 said:

I think with buying/paying to take youth players from other academies (Carney was from Northampton), we have to be realistic in understanding some of the better talents may be then pinched from us just as we pinched them in the first place.

In fairness, he was 12 at the time - it's not like he'd spent a load of time in Northampton Town academy being developed. It's unlikely he'll have been part of the set up there for more than a season. 

The talents that we actually pinched from other academies, those that were developed elsewhere and then came here, all seem really keen to commit to us - you only need look at Iroegbunam or Barry for examples of that.

 

[Laughable Chimp]

30 minutes ago, The_Steve said:

It feels like an easy stick to beat the club with despite NWSE making our academy one of the best across most European leagues. 
 

Time will tell. I hope he stays and unless the situation changes I will continue to do so. 

A bit too soon to say this. Lets wait a couple years and see what the results of our academy are

[HanoiVillan]

31 minutes ago, The_Steve said:

It feels like an easy stick to beat the club with despite NWSE making our academy one of the best across most European leagues.

I agree, but I think football fans (and sometimes clubs themselves) are not really prepared for what it actually takes to be a team that really excels in bringing through younger players. Many of the things a club needs to do turn out to be difficult or unpopular:

• You need to accept that there's a trade off between short-term performance and long-term potential;
• You need to pick them frequently, including when it seems like a worse option. Unless you've got the best youth players on the planet, this is going to be nearly always. You've probably got a senior pro on the bench who could 'do a job' and the floor for their performance is probably higher than a kid, so the easy thing to do is pick the senior. But if kids don't get frequent opportunities in the first team, they won't improve;
• You need to be prepared to provide *real* pathways, which means ditching senior pros. Are we getting great value out of eg Sanson and Traore? Gerrard clearly doesn't want to rotate them into the team; 10 minute sub appearances aren't meaningful. Meanwhile they are blocking pathways for youth players, because as above, it's easier to pick them when there's an absence/sub them on. We need to be realistic that we only play 38 games a season, one per week for most of the year, and rarely even have a good cup run. Teams playing in Europe play 55 or 60 games a season, there's loads of opportunity to rotate squad players in. But we don't have that opportunity, and we (I now think mistakenly, though I thought otherwise at the time) voted against 5 subs so there's only 14 opportunities per week, the vast majority of which are clearly spoken for. Gotta thin the squad to do this seriously.

I imagine we'll give up on the idea or fudge it rather than doing any of those things in a systematic way, but I hope to be proven wrong.

[TRO]

On 28/03/2022 at 18:21, AvonVillain said:

I think I might be just continuing a moot point to some degree, but if I was in the position of this lad I'd jump at the chance to go abroad and play regularly. Even more so given the current management style and potential transfer business in the summer.

If I had confidence, in my own ability, and was a midfielder.....I would stay, and suck every bit of information and advice out of one the best midfielders this country has ever seen....along with Michael Beale and Gary McAllister, who was no slouch either.

I would then work, night and day on my game, working every hour, within sensible and guided limits.

I would then work my ass off when I got a chance to come on and make a mark on the game.....I would make myself noticed.

Going to another club, is not necessarily the answer, is Jack better at City, as was predicted, I'm not so sure he is.

CC has to make his mark,himself,  he can't just expect a move to be his salvation....Jude Bellingham, would have made it, where ever he went, even at the Blues......Dortmund maybe a good stable for young players, but there are plenty of examples of young players in this country like Saka and Smith Rowe, who have stayed and knuckled down....as have Mount and Grealish.

CC needs to apply a bit of patience and humilty and get in the groove of making it irrespective of where he goes or stays.

When I check it out, most players who have left us have gone on to do worse, perhaps Sturridge was an exception....many just settled in the championship, which in a way is still good, but not Premier League.

My advice to CC is look at Jacob Ramsey and not so much at Jude Bellingham.

ps There is around 30 odd behind the scenes staff at Villa.....where will young up and coming kids get that kind of support?

Edited March 29, 2022 by TRO

[TRO]

5 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

I agree, but I think football fans (and sometimes clubs themselves) are not really prepared for what it actually takes to be a team that really excels in bringing through younger players. Many of the things a club needs to do turn out to be difficult or unpopular:

• You need to accept that there's a trade off between short-term performance and long-term potential;
• You need to pick them frequently, including when it seems like a worse option. Unless you've got the best youth players on the planet, this is going to be nearly always. You've probably got a senior pro on the bench who could 'do a job' and the floor for their performance is probably higher than a kid, so the easy thing to do is pick the senior. But if kids don't get frequent opportunities in the first team, they won't improve;
• You need to be prepared to provide *real* pathways, which means ditching senior pros. Are we getting great value out of eg Sanson and Traore? Gerrard clearly doesn't want to rotate them into the team; 10 minute sub appearances aren't meaningful. Meanwhile they are blocking pathways for youth players, because as above, it's easier to pick them when there's an absence/sub them on. We need to be realistic that we only play 38 games a season, one per week for most of the year, and rarely even have a good cup run. Teams playing in Europe play 55 or 60 games a season, there's loads of opportunity to rotate squad players in. But we don't have that opportunity, and we (I now think mistakenly, though I thought otherwise at the time) voted against 5 subs so there's only 14 opportunities per week, the vast majority of which are clearly spoken for. Gotta thin the squad to do this seriously.

I imagine we'll give up on the idea or fudge it rather than doing any of those things in a systematic way, but I hope to be proven wrong.

I don't disagree with any of that....but we have to be realistic too. I am with you on the notion that they need game time, but the manager needs wins too.

We have lost 15 games so far this season and have gone out of both cups, early on, we struggke for consistency, even with senior pro's, such is the challenge of this league.....this as you say, conspires against giving youth game time, that on the backdrop of fans wanting entertaining football, is a huge balance to bridge.

Clubs in other leagues, can maybe balance that better as the challenges are no quite so arduous.

I still have a belief, that the good find a way through, they seem to find a way to achieve what they deserve, like Jack did......The youth that make it like Foden and Mount, seem to find a way of making it.....our own Andy Gray was 19, when he was tearing it up, as was Gary Shaw....sure its probably harder now, but there are still plenty of examples in the modern day.

 

[AntrimBlack]

Is it possible that he may be one of those players, and Aston Villa have had a few, that look brilliant at youth level but just don't do it at senior level? 

[Steero113]

3 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said:

Is it possible that he may be one of those players, and Aston Villa have had a few, that look brilliant at youth level but just don't do it at senior level? 

Crikey, writing him off much?

He's 18 years old and has looked completely comfortable at centre midfield in the premier league. 

For context, the last player who started at CM in the premier league at 17 years old was in 2005. 

He is doing it at senior level. What more does he have to do to not attract these types of comments? Be prime Zidane at this age?

 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Steero113

[villa4europe]

4 minutes ago, Steero113 said:

Crikey, writing him off much?

He's 18 years old and has looked completely comfortable at centre midfield in the premier league. 

For context, the last player who started at CM in the premier league at 17 years old was in 2005. 

He is doing it at senior level. What more does he have to do to not attract these types of comments? Be prime Zidane at this age?

For me he was doing exactly the same as Ramsey was when he broke through and it's a shame his opportunities have dried up

If Ramsey, chuk and timbo all end up at the same level we have a midfield for 10 years 

[Steero113]

Just now, villa4europe said:

For me he was doing exactly the same as Ramsey was when he broke through and it's a shame his opportunities have dried up

If Ramsey, chuk and timbo all end up at the same level we have a midfield for 10 years 

Exactly this. 

People don't realise how good we've got it. Our academy is outstanding.