chrisp65 Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 1 hour ago, villa89 said: That 'some official' is a medical expert who knows a million times more than you ever will about vaccines and public health. Vaccine's go through a rigorous testing processing, more rigorous than any other medical product as they are typically given to healthy people. They then get approved by various state bodies, FDA/EMA etc. around the world after typically years of work by extremely well trained, well educated experts in medicine. However now we have people who are full of irrational, anti-government, "fight the machine", anti-big pharma, etc. nonsense who refuse to take vaccines and actively put the rest of society at risk. Or have read something on the internet and think they know more than the EMA/FDA or immunologists with 20+ years experience in the field. Or even worse think that traditional Chinese medicine, or Homeopathy or some other snake oil are what we should be using. 99.9% of those people haven't a clue what they are talking about, don't know how vaccines work and don't know what MRNA even stands for but yet refuse to take vaccines because they think they are standing up for their rights, or sticking one to Boris or some other BS. For Covid it's probably not that big a deal as it's not that dangerous a virus in the grand scheme of things but what happens if Measles or TB make a comeback and we have the same irrational nonsense? Or diseases that we could eliminate if we had a full global vaccination program? Polio has effectively been wiped out around the world solely because of vaccines. I wonder how many people would refuse a polio vaccine in western Europe despite that great achievement. It's a sad indictment of modern society that in a lot of countries there is such a mistrust of government on important issues. Governments have themselves to blame with all the blatant lies they come out with but I would assume that most people can sort the wheat from the chaff however sadly this is not the case. I find anti-Vaxxers are typically the same type of idiots who don't donate their organs when they die. They have that same "it's my body" mentality even though it makes zero sense. Donate your organs and they might be some use to someone else other than bacteria food. It's another free, selfless act that benefits society. FWIW if I was king of the universe (Vote villa89 '32!) organ donation would also be mandatory. I'll leave it there, much like arguing with Creationists anti-vaxxers will just shout, roar and generally talk nonsense until you just lose the will to live. So its not just politicians that have more rights over my body, it’s experts that believe they have important information? Medical experts, scientists, the military i guess, and the politicians. In your world they all have control over my body? That’s a mad totalitarian world there, that’s well beyond 1984. A few people have referenced critical thinking. I think that would be a really good idea. A bit of projection and the consequences of forced medical procedures. There are two distinct issues here, the education on the benefit of vaccine. Then there is your advocacy of extreme state control and forced medicines. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted November 16, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted November 16, 2021 24 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: A load of false science from one bloke and one study attributing MMR to autism, which then evolved into all vaccines. Add in a sprinkle of 'we're done listening to experts' and social media where anyone can be expert and here we are. Yep, that's it in a nutshell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted November 16, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted November 16, 2021 23 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: In school we had critical thinking lessons but only for the top 5% of the year group. Sums it up really. It's the bottom 5% that need it most. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 3 hours ago, villa89 said: I find it scary that so many people are scared of vaccines and have some irrational notions about not getting vaccinated. Vaccines are arguably the greatest human invention of all time. You'd be hard pressed to find another thing that has saved more lives and prevented so much suffering. TB, Polio, Smallpox, Mumps, Measles etc. all largely under control solely down to the wonder of vaccines. For years lots of countries have had a requirement for you to have taken certain vaccines to enter and nobody minded. Now we have the dreaded anti-vax horseshit and the political pandering that goes with it which will eventually cause more deaths, more suffering and the re-emergence of serious illnesses that could have been wiped out. TDLR; If you don't have a genuine reason (i.e. immuno-compromised etc.) to not get any vaccine you should be forced to get it, tied down if necessary. Why? Use your ****ing brain, that's why. People who choose not to get vaccinated are actively putting everyone else in society at risk. I don't think it should come to forced vaccinations. But there are lots of ways of skinning a cat. If people don't want one, then that is their choice, but we should then have lockdowns for people who choose not to. Don't want to get vaccinated for the good of society? Great, but the payback is that you don't then get to play a full part in society. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 If we’re looking at the really big risks, proven scientific risks, I guess it’s population control and forced sterilisation programmes that we really need to get going. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted November 16, 2021 Moderator Share Posted November 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Risso said: . Don't want to get vaccinated for the good of society? Great, but the payback is that you don't then get to play a full part in society. Yeah, this. As @villa89 said, mandatory vaccination(s) are a requirement for visiting certain countries, and that kind of principle could be applied to domestic situations, but it is a tricky one. It's kind of straightforward to accept when it's "if you want to come into Brazil [or wherever country] you need to have had a yellow fever vaccination" - because it's other government setting the rules for their nation, but when it comes to "the Government of this country where you live has rules that you must have Covid vaccination [unless valid reason] in order to go to the pub" it looks awfully like heavy state control of citizens. Most people will think justifiably so, but the thought that "you're basically compelling me to have a vaccine to have a quality of life" will be seen as too authoritarian by others. Natural selection might take care of it, mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 Fully boosted and Flu-ed vaxxed up. Pfizer for the booster, although it was AZ for the prequels. It makes me feel comfortable but a quick question, do I need another in 6 months? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted November 16, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted November 16, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Seat68 said: Fully boosted and Flu-ed vaxxed up. Pfizer for the booster, although it was AZ for the prequels. It makes me feel comfortable but a quick question, do I need another in 6 months? My god. 3 Covid vaccines and a flu vaccine. You are a medical miracle, by now you should be little more than a quivering green splodge on the floor. Edited November 16, 2021 by sidcow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 lockdown round 3 incoming here the austrians are trialing a lockdown for anyone who hasnt got the vaccine in 2 regions and germany is talking about doing the same, government announcement thursday, my office has already announced no face to face meetings and all xmas parties banned, expecting them to send me to home office next week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 22 minutes ago, Seat68 said: Fully boosted and Flu-ed vaxxed up. Pfizer for the booster, although it was AZ for the prequels. It makes me feel comfortable but a quick question, do I need another in 6 months? Got my flu jab tomorrow. My first ever flu jab so very excited for this brave new world of being able to lick door handles with gay abandon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 15 hours ago, bickster said: There used to be when I was in school. We had a single period a week for a lesson called Guidance. Covered all kinds of shit like that, I even remember one mind numbing lesson on how to cut your nails properly. they had something similar when i was at school but 95% of it was how not to get pregnant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 Just now, chrisp65 said: Got my flu jab tomorrow. My first ever flu jab so very excited for this brave new world of being able to lick door handles with gay abandon. It was my first as well. It's all opened up so much to me. May try a new raw chicken diet. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 16, 2021 Moderator Share Posted November 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, villa4europe said: they had something similar when i was at school but 95% of it was how not to get pregnant Strangely, that was taught in Science in our school Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 Anyone had a positive lateral flow followed by a negative PCR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 13 minutes ago, Jareth said: Anyone had a positive lateral flow followed by a negative PCR? About 40,000 people I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 16, 2021 Moderator Share Posted November 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Jareth said: Anyone had a positive lateral flow followed by a negative PCR? False positives in a LF are reasonably common. PCR considered more accurate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 14 minutes ago, bickster said: False positives in a LF are reasonably common. PCR considered more accurate False negatives are far more common for lateral flow tests. False positives are quite rare, they've got 99.5% specificity, so if they say you've got it, you almost certainly have. If they say you haven't, there's about a ⅓ probability that it's wrong. I did three lateral flow tests when I had it, that all said negative. A PCR the next day confirmed I was positive. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 16, 2021 Moderator Share Posted November 16, 2021 11 minutes ago, Risso said: False negatives are far more common for lateral flow tests. False positives are quite rare, they've got 99.5% specificity, so if they say you've got it, you almost certainly have. If they say you haven't, there's about a ⅓ probability that it's wrong. I did three lateral flow tests when I had it, that all said negative. A PCR the next day confirmed I was positive. I'm not disagreeing with you nor am I playing a game of semantic ping-pong, it's boring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 16, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted November 16, 2021 2 hours ago, villa4europe said: lockdown round 3 incoming here the austrians are trialing a lockdown for anyone who hasnt got the vaccine in 2 regions and germany is talking about doing the same, government announcement thursday, my office has already announced no face to face meetings and all xmas parties banned, expecting them to send me to home office next week I imagine we'll copy that as well, but we'll implement it in about 18 months time 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 Europe having another wave, I think we know by now that it WILL come here too at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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