Generic Virus Thread

[Mic09]

I was just reading on the COVID passports in Scotland.

It's clear that vaccines build immunity, but it's a relatively short lasting immunity and all studies show a decrease in effectiveness after 6 months in, regardless of the type of vaccine.

Natural immunity given by actually going through COVID is greater, but still decreases over time.

Considering that vaccines are far from perfect, and that you can still transmit COVID following vaccinations, it seems to me that preventing people from going to cinemas or restaurants just because they haven't got the vaccine is not only ethically questionable, but also, well, a bit meaningless.

Why should a 55 year old obese, coca cola drinking, Doritos munching guy be able to go the the cinema because he got the vax in February, but an athletic 20 year old who went through COVID that same month but didn't get the vaccine not be able to enjoy the same liberties?

[sharkyvilla]

Anyone know if a PCR result can come through at any time during the day or do they only come during relatively normal 'office' hours?  It's been about 27 hours since my Test and I'm due to start work at 8pm this evening and not sure whether it's likely to come through before then.

[Mic09]

10 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

Anyone know if a PCR result can come through at any time during the day or do they only come during relatively normal 'office' hours?  It's been about 27 hours since my Test and I'm due to start work at 8pm this evening and not sure whether it's likely to come through before then.

Anytime, it's a 24h service.

[sharkyvilla]

Just now, Mic09 said:

Anytime, it's a 24h service.

Cheers.  I better get my pre-work nap in just in case.

[Mic09]

1 minute ago, sharkyvilla said:

Cheers.  I better get my pre-work nap in just in case.

Mid-work naps are also effective.

[snowychap]

3 hours ago, villa4europe said:

the austrians are trialing a lockdown for anyone who hasnt got the vaccine in 2 regions and germany is talking about doing the same

It's a very worrying development and even more worrying that otherwise moderate people are fully supportive of it.

 

[Xela]

7 hours ago, mjmooney said:

It's the bottom 5% that need it most. 

Bottom 75% more like. 

[villa4europe]

        - 

17 hours ago, snowychap said:

It's a very worrying development and even more worrying that otherwise moderate people are fully supportive of it.

 

The bully boy tactics have been coming for a while, they have like a 3G rule where you have to be vaccinated, recovered from rona or be tested before you do anything, want a hair cut you have to be vaccinated or tested, eat at a restaurant, play football etc 

In september they took away the free testing... So if I wasnt vaccinated and wanted to play football, get my hair cut and go to the pub at the weekend it would cost me over €100 in testing 

Edited November 17, 2021 by villa4europe
changed to "wasnt" vaccinated! im jabbed so just a flash of the document for me to get in places, no cost

[Davkaus]

46 minutes ago, snowychap said:

It's a very worrying development and even more worrying that otherwise moderate people are fully supportive of it.

 

I sway back and forth on this. Unlimited individual freedom is not possible in a society - one's individual freedoms must be weighed up against the impact of those freedoms on others. 

I'd be happy with an intermediate step of requiring a negative test, but ultimately, the vaccine cuts transmission, and I'm not particularly supportive of an individual's rights to spread disease.

[Genie]

1 hour ago, Mic09 said:

Considering that vaccines are far from perfect, and that you can still transmit COVID following vaccinations, it seems to me that preventing people from going to cinemas or restaurants just because they haven't got the vaccine is not only ethically questionable, but also, well, a bit meaningless.

More important than transmission is the vaccines reduce serious illness. That’s the big benefit, stopping (or reducing) the hospitals getting overrun. 

[Genie]

7 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

the vaccine cuts transmission,

Most recent data suggests it’s not the case. Not sure if it’s a quirk or not but data here and in Israel is showing just as many, and more people proportionally catching covid who are vaccinated than not.

Latest ONS data had about 1.5% of vaccinated and 1% of unvaccinated catching it in the last 3 weeks (50-59 year age group but it’s similar for all above 30).

[Mic09]

1 minute ago, Genie said:

More important than transmission is the vaccines reduce serious illness. That’s the big benefit, stopping (or reducing) the hospitals getting overrun. 

Yeah, no question.

But in the example I gave above, the 55 year old obese crisp munching vaccinated guy is at a bigger risk of hospitalisation than the healthy non vaccinated 20 year old who already went through COVID. 

So I question the logic of these mandates.

[Genie]

Just now, Mic09 said:

Yeah, no question.

But in the example I gave above, the 55 year old obese crisp munching vaccinated guy is at a bigger risk of hospitalisation than the healthy non vaccinated 20 year old who already went through COVID. 

So I question the logic of these mandates.

Because he isn’t going to pass being fat onto 5 more people who pass it onto another 5 each and so on. 

[Risso]

3 hours ago, bickster said:

I'm not disagreeing with you nor am I playing a game of semantic ping-pong, it's boring

Huh? Well let's just leave it at the fact that you're just plain bang wrong then. False positives from Lateral Flow tests aren't 'reasonably common' at all.

[sidcow]

1 minute ago, Mic09 said:

Yeah, no question.

But in the example I gave above, the 55 year old obese crisp munching vaccinated guy is at a bigger risk of hospitalisation than the healthy non vaccinated 20 year old who already went through COVID. 

So I question the logic of these mandates.

There are plenty of non vaccinated 20 year old joggers who have ended up in hospital.  The risk is lowered but no way eliminated

[Mic09]

3 minutes ago, sidcow said:

There are plenty of non vaccinated 20 year old joggers who have ended up in hospital.  The risk is lowered but no way eliminated

I get that - and I have no arguments here.

But there are also many vaccinated obese, not caring about their health 55 year olds who end up in the hospital.

So considering the long term weakening of the vaccine, and the fact that immunity gained through actually going through COVID is stronger (but also weakening overtime), why should one person be allowed in a cinema and not the other?

Surely the obese 55 year old who had the jab almost a year ago is a bigger risk than a 20 year old who went through COVID and has no medical conditions affecting their health?

I get why we do these restrictions (agree on some,  disagree on others) but this makes no logical sense.

 

[sidcow]

24 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

I get that - and I have no arguments here.

But there are also many vaccinated obese, not caring about their health 55 year olds who end up in the hospital.

So considering the long term weakening of the vaccine, and the fact that immunity gained through actually going through COVID is stronger (but also weakening overtime), why should one person be allowed in a cinema and not the other?

Surely the obese 55 year old who had the jab almost a year ago is a bigger risk than a 20 year old who went through COVID and has no medical conditions affecting their health?

I get why we do these restrictions (agree on some,  disagree on others) but this makes no logical sense.

 

I think the answer is for people to stop being such **** dick heads and just go get jabbed. 

[Mic09]

8 minutes ago, sidcow said:

I think the answer is for people to stop being such **** dick heads and just go get jabbed. 

But in this specific case the non vaxed is better protected and less likely to spread it, so letting one in to the cinema and not the other seems stupid.

[Genie]

1 minute ago, Mic09 said:

But in this specific case the non vaxed is better protected and less likely to spread it, so letting one in to the cinema and not the other seems stupid.

In some places proof of natural immunity (i.e. have recovered from the virus) is accepted. 
I think for foreign travel it’s either vaccination, negative test or proof you’ve had it in a certain timeframe.

[Kuwabatake Sanjuro]

Data from the US would suggest reinfection rates are higher than vaccine breakthroughs. What has happened in Iran too is a warning to others that lasting immunity through infections is not likely to happen, as there has been more covid cases there than people coupled with wave after wave of deaths.