Recruitment

[Villan4Life]

My reply to Matt Kendrick re scouting:-

 

Edited June 21, 2020 by Villan4Life

[ciggiesnbeer]

14 minutes ago, Johnnyp said:

At what point in the season did you think they were good ?

First third. And not "good" obviously but they have got worse overtime since then.

But I did believe this was a group of young players who were growing. 

Good coaches and managers dont let their players go backwards in development like ours have, imho of course.

 

tldr: we have more expensive and "better" players than Sheffield who have far far less resources than us. So whats the difference between us?

Coaches and manager.
 

Edited June 21, 2020 by ciggiesnbeer

[DCJonah]

4 minutes ago, ciggiesnbeer said:

First third. And not "good" obviously but they have got worse overtime since then.

But I did believe this was a group of young players who were growing. 

Good coaches and managers dont let their players go backwards in development like ours have, imho of course.

 

tldr: we have more expensive and "better" players than Sheffield who have far far less resources than us. So whats the difference between us?

Coaches and manager.
 

Do we?

[Sulberto21]

23 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I dont most of them are poor.

I like targett Luiz and nakamba.

I dont like trez jota el ghazi hause and wes has looked generally shit.

Mings konsa samatta have been decent but inconsistent 

Agree with your post. However I disagree about Wes and AEG for different reasons. Wesley has shown in some games he can be a dominant force and there's a saying you're only as good as your last game. Against Burnley he was shit hot. Had he not got injured I believe his value now would have increased. 

AEG ahhh the most frustrating player we have. His problem is purely psychological.  I believe he has sincere insecurities about his game. He can be a very good player but is so asleep and switched off in games it's not funny. That's where man management comes in. 

Edit : it was blatantly obvious we needed 1-2 more experienced players in to help the current guys. Even if they were from abroad. 

Edited June 21, 2020 by Sulberto21

[hippo]

Apart from the loans we made permanent + Heaton. None of them have cut it in the PL - Luiz might do in due course as may Samatta.

The likes of Trez, Gilbert, Konsa don't even look standout championship players at the moment.

Very poor recruitment in the summer.

[hippo]

On 31/05/2020 at 12:07, villa4europe said:

Same as at pretty much all clubs

He meets with suso and his team, says that he likes the look of such and such, the team watches him, they like the look of him too, suso talks to the players agent and team, deal can't be done, we move on, or the scouts watch him closely several times and spot some flaws in his game and we decide to move on 

"at Brentford I had this talented CB with loads of potential, konsa..." 

Dean's job is to lead the horse to water, susos job is to get it to drink 

Jota and Konsa must be DS picks ? - neither look good enough for the prem

[danceoftheshamen]

Moneyball II is turning out to be just as successful as Moneyball I

Not surprised at all.

Watch Newcastle's new owners come in & Buy every World class player they can get their hands on regardless of cost... I see FFP has already been cancelled for the year to facilitate it. Meanwhile we keep taking punts on cheap gambles.

 

[Sulberto21]

1 minute ago, danceoftheshamen said:

Moneyball II is turning out to be just as successful as Moneyball I

Not surprised at all.

Watch Newcastle's new owners come in & Buy every World class player they can get their hands on regardless of cost... I see FFP has already been cancelled for the year to facilitate it. Meanwhile we keep taking punts on cheap gambles.

 

And if they fall foul of ffp they'll either buy Uefa or give them a huge payoff.

[ciggiesnbeer]

36 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Do we?

Evidently not, sadly

[TRO]

3 hours ago, useless said:

When you look at it, in 2015 we spent about £60m which was a lot of money then to only get relegated, then we spent close to a £100m trying to get promoted from the championship, more than that if you count loans, and now we've spent another £140m trying to stay in the premier league, and that's looking likely to fail. That's £300m to get relegated, come back up and then go straight back down, we must be the most calamitous club when it comes to transfers.

To top it off, if you wanted to sign those players we bought back in 2015, you'd probably be looking at close to £150m for them now, if not more, in total we received Adomah, for Adamah, Neil Taylor for Ayew, around £5m for Veretout, £8m for Gueye, and around £10m for Amavi, and I'm not even sure if we received all that money because Xia had to sell some of the future rights to transfer payments on some players.

Not sure what's wrong, but seems something needs to change with regards to our recruitment, maybe need to stop messing about and bring in some people who know what they're doing and have proven as such.

• must be amongst them
• Might be a good idea

we need a public inquiry in to our recent record of recruiting players.

[useless]

There was rumour that when our owners first came in that Mendes was helping them because we didn't have any Director of Football or any scouts, I think he might have recommended Suso, and we brought him in as a stop gap because he has contacts with scouts and agents, then in January we  had a pretty good window and managed to get promoted, so I think that might have kept him in a job longer than originally intended. There was talk of him leaving whatever happens at the end of the season whatever happens, that wouldn't surprise me at all.

[useless]

 

[useless]

In the comments to that tweet Emenalo is mentioned, to which Matt Law replied that he'd drive him there himself, having worked with Purslow at Chelsea and being out of work at the moment wouldn't surprise me if he was someone we tried to get as a replacement for Suso.

Edited June 21, 2020 by useless

[Tomaszk]

It's very very easy to not buy shit players.

[Spoony]

37 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

It's very very easy to not buy shit players.

And yet it’s all we EVER do

[Bazmonkey]

The recruitment for years has been poor.  Apart from a few loan signing the rest has been average at best and ultimately set the club back years.

We have spent far too much money on far to many 'one for the future' players.

I all for going down the leagues and finding a player which this applies for but you cannot do it for a whole team, especially in the premiership, its crazy.  Who are these players to learn from, where is the experience.

Then theres the 'experience players' the Elmo's...the Targett' of the world.  Both of these players have come from teams that have been either lower premiership or fighting relegation for most of their careers.  Its habitual, its muscle memory, how are these players all of sudden for years scrapping, booting the ball, defending poorly suddenly expected to move to us and change that philosophy, answer, it doesn't.

Most of the squad is championship at best and not the top half.  Its hard to comment of Wes and Samatta because lets face it the service and support from the rest of the team has been shocking, Harry Kane would struggle to get more than two goals in this team.

The recruitment this summer was always going to hard but the board, manager, scouts have truly messed it up.  we went down last time when a new tv deal kicked in a missed out, now that FFP is going to cancelled, ok, we didn't know that at the start but that's another one we will miss out on.

The Jots, hause's did we we really need them, could we not have used that money on a Cahill, or an experience premiership player not playing as much, be stronger, i think we could have.

It was a massive gamble with the players brought in to one play in the prem and two, stay in it.  In addition, knowing that Grealish, our top asset was likely to go if we went down, they would have known that, and whey didn't factor that in.

I keep reading we have a good side if we go down, sorry, we don't, we have a good manager, sorry, I like him, but as a manager, out of his depth, we didn't set the championship on fire last time round, yes we won 10 on the bounce, but did we dominate, run over teams, or was like yesterday a bit, only difference the quality wasn't their to finish us off in most games.

When we go down i just cant see us coming back for two maybe three years min due to the recruitment process and those in charge, plus add to that Grealish and the better players Mings and McGinn may leave too if an offer comes in.

[MaVilla]

I actually dont think our recruitment was that bad overall, we had 135m to basically buy a whole team, we signed what......15 or 16 players?

I think our biggest was issue was the pure number of players we needed to sign, and the fact a lot of them probably needed 12 months to settle in, that fine when its one or two players who need bedding in, but when its 10 it's always going to be difficult.

Honestly, the only player who I think was terrible business is Trez, coupled with the fact the other two wingers we signed are borderline bench players at best (ghazi and jota).

I think arguments can be made for all the others that they have done ok overall.

The biggest issue alongside the winger problems for me is who we didn't sign, we desperately needed, and still need a high calibre DM, and 2 x wingers that are actually good.

With those 3 players (that we don't have), inthink we would have been closer to mid table than relegation.

[VillaChris]

10 hours ago, Spoony said:

And yet it’s all we EVER do

Not always. Despite us struggling initally from when we signed them Adomah., Jedinak, Kodjia and Chester were all with us on the day we were promoted having signed in August 2016, that's nearly 3 years. A few of those also terrific voices in the dressing room. Then the next summer we signed Whelan who despite not being a fan favourite more than proved his worth in the run in last season. Hourihane also signed in early jan 2017 and started the play off final.

Of course hardly any of them were good enough for premier league for different reasons but they did the job at the time which was to stabilise us and then get out of the division. Experienced and knew the league and eventually it paid off. Bet Sunderland were wishing they'd signed a few of those when they came down in 2017.

That's why I really don't understand why we complete ignored that formula when we came up, it's simple common sense if you haven't played in the top league for 3 years you sign some players who have in recent times. Yes we obviously can't get the top end ones but there were plenty of other Heaton type players who were available in the summer.

Most squads rely operate on 3-4 year cycles. Someone mentioned Spurs the other day but really I think the loss in CL final was the end of the road for that squad and this season has proved it. Their Belgian CBs are past it, Rose has been shifted to Newcastle, Eriksen and Trippier gone, Dier looks awful nowadays even though he's only about 26 and Dele Alli hasn't done much for two years. Kane might also want to leave in next 12 months.

None of them bar Vertonghen are over 30 but you can see motivation has really dropped and amusing Mourinho is tasked with trying to fix all that.

You can try to build an under 25 team but most young players will massively lack consistancy and some of them simply won't turn out as good as hyped, we saw that in the 2006-12 period where we gave debuts to countless young players in premier league and only a couple turned out to be excellent premier league players in the long run, Cahill and Albrighton. Curtis Davies being signed was also a massive disappointment.

[DCJonah]

13 hours ago, useless said:

 

Agree with all this. 

[thabucks]

Michael Emenalo or Dan Ashworth would be my suggestions if we are looking to replace Suso if he has failed in his remit... The issue is though it that we do not fully know what his summer instructions were from Purslow and NSWE...

it’s turned into another **** for sure!