Wesley Moraes

[KenjiOgiwara]

3 minutes ago, useless said:

I've acually been wondering that myself recently, I think I sometimes forget that I have a better footballing mind than most, and am sometimes too harsh with people, and should appreciate that not everyone understands football like me. And by the way not showing off, as sadly knowing a lot about football isn't the most usual thing, wish I was good at something else.

Dunning Kruger mate read up on it.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Chindie said:

It's a few things.

Wesley arrived as a young Brazilian prospect bought for a club record fee (even if that record is completely dwarfed by many these days), and perhaps worse, a striker. A big striker whose Belgian highlights showed him powering through defences. The natural reaction as a fan is to be a bit excited - club record 22 year old Brazilian powerhouses striker? **** yeah!

But then he's arrived and he's not blown anyone away. The fall from that hype and hope is tangible, and opens him up to getting a little more stick than he might have got had he been a 22 year old Swiss striker who was ok.

His performances and attitude rub people the wrong way and make it easy to hate him. On the pitch he's struggled to impact games (mostly not his fault imo), at times has been lazy, he doesn't play like an out and out forward, wanting to drop deep (not long ago he was a midfielder), he's been unable to use his strength and size (again, not entirely his fault), he initially was very bad at the South American trademark playacting, and worst of all he's a moody bastard. His surly attitude on the pitch makes him ready to hate - I don't like it, at all. He whinges and moans, looks like a bulldog sucking a wasp soaked in vinegar, waves his arms around in exasperation... It's hard to like that. Couple that to him not blowing the league away and often not playing that well makes turning on him really, really easy

ok...so whats your take on Hogan.....not disagreeing by the way.

[useless]

I can't have a Dunning Kruger bias, look at the username I picked for myself. I was of course joking, but as I was writing I couldn't help but smile to myself and think 'there's an element of truth to this'.

Edited December 6, 2019 by useless

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Laughable Chimp said:

Been looking at Wesley's shot map and noticed that aside from the Newcastle game, the last good chance he's actually had for us was more than 2 months ago. Tbf to him, I do think a big reason for that is the quality of opposition we're going up against. But still, other players have been scoring goals in that period too.

So I decided to have a look at the shot maps of our other forwards in that same period.

El Ghazi has about 2 at least good chances to score from, the Newcastle free kick which he scored from, and a near sitter at the start of the second half of the Brighton game which he missed.

Trezeguet had 2 and scored both of them, the goal at Chelsea and the free kick at Liverpool.

Grealish had like 2, the goal at Brighton and the missed sitter at Man United

No real point, just thought it was interesting. Tbf to him, he really hasn't gotten much worthwhile chances to score from and he just isn't a striker who is going to score lots of difficult goals. I hope after the Leicester game, we get to see more dangerous chances drop to him.

If the goal scoring was the only issue.....but it isn't.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

 

 

Dean Smith: “The pressure is from the outside. It’s not from Bodymoor Heath or the dressing room. He’s a popular figure (Wesley), and came here with a lot of potential and promise. He’s still trying to fulfil that potential.” [birmingham live] #avfc

 

Edited December 6, 2019 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[Tomaszk]

Good words from the manager backing a player.

[Laughable Chimp]

Been searching for it for a while, but finally found it. Transfermarkt actually ranks all the centre forwards by minute per goal. Good, I don't have to manually calculate or find for each one.

Wesley is number 36 out of 38 centre forwards who've scored a goal this season in terms of minutes per goals. The only 2 who are worse in that regard are Andre Gray and Joelinton.

And with that, I think I'm done with searching up Wesley stats for awhile.

[Newry_Villan]

Too big of  step up to be leading the line for us.  He needs help. I am not writing him off.  I think there's just too much pressure on him at the minute. A striker in January is needed and then the coaches can work with Big Wes and ease him back in to the team.

Edited December 6, 2019 by Newry_Villan

[Tomaszk]

I believe the last team Smith spoke out about Wes, he bagged two at Norwich. Let's see it Wesley!

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

6 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

I believe the last team Smith spoke out about Wes, he bagged two at Norwich. Let's see it Wesley!

Smith also mentioned that in the same thread, however my limit for posting photos was exceeded so I couldn't post it.

Said something along the lines of "I was getting asked these silly question after 5 or 6 games then he went and bagged 2 at Norwich, all of a sudden he's a snip at 22 million, then he has a barren spell and all of a sudden he's not worth 2 million"

Edited December 6, 2019 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[Tomaszk]

1 minute ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Smith also mentioned that in the same thread, however my limit for posting photos was exceeded so I couldn't post it.

Said something along the lines of "I was getting asked these silly question after 5 or 6 games then he went and bagged 2 at Norwich, all of a sudden he's a snip at 22 million, then he has a barren spell and all of a sudden he's not worth 2 million"

If he scores this weekend, I demand he talk about him before every game.

I don't care about him scoring overall tbh, I just want him stop playing so badly.

[Zatman]

I trust Smith over some online posters with a vendetta

[Chindie]

16 minutes ago, TRO said:

ok...so whats your take on Hogan.....not disagreeing by the way.

Limited player who had a period where he could smack goals in off his arse. The one season wonder striker is a fairly common thing - sometimes they're average players who had a season where everything clicks, others they're very limited players, like Hogan.

Hogan and Wesley aren't that comparable. Hogan has 1 thing in his locker - he'll run all game. But he's not very fast, strong, big, skillful or technically adept. He also was in a familiar league and had played a decent amount of football. Wesley is younger, physically is more capable, has played far less football and has made a considerable shift in coming here - going from a big side in a rubbish league to a promoted side in an elite league, in a new country, and playing as part of a team that's had an enormous overhaul. He looks to have more technical talent than Hogan too - he's hit passes in games Hogan wouldn't dare. Against Manchester United in the second half he collected the ball with his back to goal and swung a superb pass out the wing - Hogan wouldn't do that, but with our game being about getting wider forwards on the ball that's what we want him doing a lot of the time.

Wesley has not had a flawless beginning to his career here, but he was never going to. And he's got a lot of potential.

[Keyblade]

Hard to believe we paid £12m for Hogan 3 years ago. Puts Wesley's £22m into perspective somewhat.

[Zatman]

6 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Hard to believe we paid £12m for Hogan 3 years ago. Puts Wesley's £22m into perspective somewhat.

6 million we paid for Balaban is probably about 25-30million in the current market 

[TRO]

Just now, Zatman said:

6 million we paid for Balaban is probably about 25-30million in the current market 

12 mill for McCormack.....ain't very good with strikers are we?

[Newry_Villan]

Comparing fees with Hogan and McCormack is pointless IMO, I'd expect Wesley to be much better than them when he gets to their age.

[kiltorken]

I've genuinely read more coherent statements on the back off toilet doors than a lot of the stuff on here recently. 

[Zatman]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

12 mill for McCormack.....ain't very good with strikers are we?

Nope. This decade we have had Bent, Keane, Tammy, Benteke and arguably Gabby and Kodjia that did a good job for us 

[troon_villan]

Those who want to vent their frustration are entitled to do so, it's why you come here and post after all. 

Just remember where we were a year ago though and compare that grief to what you are feeling about this young lad from another country.

Just think,  you're 22 been playing pro for about 7 years and you've been bought by a sleeping giant club just promoted. A huge price tag to lead the line with very little competition. You're IT, you ARE THE STRIKER. 

He's probably still adjusting to the area and the language and what not.

I admit I've been disappointed guys overall but I seen enough in that Everton game to believe we have a good player here.

Have you noticed that he's got gradually worse each game since Norwich?

We've clearly got a confidence player on our hands but what's clear is that he needs some competition in January.  He probably knows that if he ain't scoring goals then we have no striker and that simply has to be weighing him down.