Wesley Moraes

[Chicken Field]

I remember last season when we got the new owners, and I think it was purslow who was talking about something along the lines of copying the Dortmund method, buying younger players, developing them and either keep them and improve the team or sell them on for profits and replace them with new youngsters. I remember fans creaming themselves with excitement. If people think that players will develop massively and become the finished the article after 15 games, then we might as well scrap our new philosophy and go back to buying overpriced older British players, that end up rotting in our reserves. 

Wesley has not been flawless, but we the fans really have to be patient and realistic, if fans think posting on a forum or facebook doesnt affect anyone, then you are wrong, it will affect his confidence greatly. The fans play a big part in a players development and confidence. I get this is a forum, but 99% of the posts critizing the guy are not constructive nor created for debate, but merely to bash the guy. 

[briny_ear]

12 minutes ago, Chicken Field said:

I remember last season when we got the new owners, and I think it was purslow who was talking about something along the lines of copying the Dortmund method, buying younger players, developing them and either keep them and improve the team or sell them on for profits and replace them with new youngsters. I remember fans creaming themselves with excitement. If people think that players will develop massively and become the finished the article after 15 games, then we might as well scrap our new philosophy and go back to buying overpriced older British players, that end up rotting in our reserves. 

Wesley has not been flawless, but we the fans really have to be patient and realistic, if fans think posting on a forum or facebook doesnt affect anyone, then you are wrong, it will affect his confidence greatly. The fans play a big part in a players development and confidence. I get this is a forum, but 99% of the posts critizing the guy are not constructive nor created for debate, but merely to bash the guy. 

Fine with the long term development idea but I think people are a bit twitchy because we need to stay in the premier league, we are 1 point above the relegation places and our main striker has barely laid a glove since scoring 2 against a Norwich defence doing their best chuckle brothers impression. 
 

I think there is concern about how we ended up with a long term development prospect playing as our sole striker.

[Five Ken McNaughts]

Come on, now. Reading through this thread... All this talk of "them" and "vendettas" is a bit much, isn't it? Surely we can all express our honest views on Wesley here. It's just opinions, folks. I have my doubts about the guy but I'll be cheering him every bit as hard as his most ardent believers on Sunday. (And, no, I've never known any Villa fan who would want a player to miss just so they can "win" an argument. I'm really not sure that person exists).

[Kiwivillan]

58 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

Fine with the long term development idea but I think people are a bit twitchy because we need to stay in the premier league, we are 1 point above the relegation places and our main striker has barely laid a glove since scoring 2 against a Norwich defence doing their best chuckle brothers impression. 
 

I think there is concern about how we ended up with a long term development prospect playing as our sole striker.

Last 6 fixtures bar Newcastle at home is as difficult 6 game run that I can remember. I will judge Wesley on the rest of the December games. Some of the posts on here lately about him are borderline hysterical

Edited December 7, 2019 by Kiwivillan

[briny_ear]

4 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

Last 6 fixtures bar Newcastle at home is as difficult 6 game run that I can remember. I will judge Wesley on the rest of the December games. Some of the posts on here lately about him are borderline hysterical

I think the line of argument I was picking up on would say you shouldn't even judge him by the December games because he is a long term development prospect. If 15 games is too few to judge him by then I don't see that 19 will change things radically.

[Kiwivillan]

16 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

I think the line of argument I was picking up on would say you shouldn't even judge him by the December games because he is a long term development prospect. If 15 games is too few to judge him by then I don't see that 19 will change things radically.

He played well against Man U and we got a result at OT. 4 of the other previous 6 were away to City Wolves and Chelsea and home to Liverpool  all top 7 teams last season. What are people expecting?

[KentVillan]

3 hours ago, briny_ear said:

I think the line of argument I was picking up on would say you shouldn't even judge him by the December games because he is a long term development prospect. If 15 games is too few to judge him by then I don't see that 19 will change things radically.

The 19 includes home fixtures against Southampton and Norwich. I think it could well change things radically - we're only 6 points off 7th place.

[Zatman]

I think a lot of people are missing the human aspect for Wesley too. He has a young family and none of them probably spoke English when he joined. So they are also adapting to a new country, school etc and its really not easy sometimes to move abroad and play your best.

Look at trouble JPA had with his family 

Edited December 7, 2019 by Zatman

[KentVillan]

5 minutes ago, Zatman said:

I think a lot of people are missing the human aspect for Wesley too. He has a young family and none of them probably spoke English when he joined. So they are also adapting to a new country, school etc and its really not easy sometimes to move abroad and play your best.

Look at trouble JPA had with his family 

The human aspect is really important. Dean Smith said in pre-season that Wesley had formed a good relationship with Jota, because Wesley speaks good Spanish. Who sets up Wesley for his first Villa goal? Jota. The run and the pass were perfectly coordinated.

The only player I've seen Wesley properly celebrate a goal with is Douglas. That genuine happiness for someone else scoring comes from having a good relationship with that player.

Football teams are built around mutual understanding. It's not just about understanding the tactics, but understanding the footballing style and quirks of each of your teammates, the way they talk among themselves, the culture, what impresses the fans, what enrages the fans.

Unless you've lived in another country where you don't speak the language, I don't think you understand how mentally overwhelming it is. Every day you're baffled by something someone has said to you. Or even worse, you think you understood, and then it turns out you've done completely the wrong thing. A few months is nothing.

I know Wesley speaks decent English in the environment of an interview where someone is speaking to him slowly. But that's miles away from being able to handle a group environment where native speakers are shouting at each other in slang, with several different strong accents.

I also know you have players like Aguero who have succeeded in England despite speaking English like a 2-year-old. But Man City have a special setup which allows all the Spanish and Portuguese speakers to thrive. It's very different from Wesley rocking up at a club where the main men are Dean Smith, John Terry, Jack Grealish, John McGinn and Tyrone Mings. Brummie, Cockney and Glaswegian is a language learner's nightmare!

Look, I'm not saying that this explains the issues with his first touch, or his inability to attack a high cross (although when you're in a good place mentally, all this stuff tends to come more naturally). But it might explain issues with his movement, with some players not linking up with him, etc. I would expect a lot of this stuff to improve in the second half of the season.

[villalad21]

Another day another Wesley excuse.

[KentVillan]

15 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Another day another Wesley excuse.

You're boring.

[KenjiOgiwara]

8 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

Good words from the manager backing a player.

Definitely. It's likely the choice Deano makes that secures us relegation, but he's the manager. 

[KenjiOgiwara]

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

I think a lot of people are missing the human aspect for Wesley too. He has a young family and none of them probably spoke English when he joined. So they are also adapting to a new country, school etc and its really not easy sometimes to move abroad and play your best.

Look at trouble JPA had with his family 

JPA you could actually see had a footballing brain and talent. You are comparing apples and oranges. 

[KenjiOgiwara]

7 hours ago, Chicken Field said:

I remember last season when we got the new owners, and I think it was purslow who was talking about something along the lines of copying the Dortmund method, buying younger players, developing them and either keep them and improve the team or sell them on for profits and replace them with new youngsters. I remember fans creaming themselves with excitement. If people think that players will develop massively and become the finished the article after 15 games, then we might as well scrap our new philosophy and go back to buying overpriced older British players, that end up rotting in our reserves. 

Wesley has not been flawless, but we the fans really have to be patient and realistic, if fans think posting on a forum or facebook doesnt affect anyone, then you are wrong, it will affect his confidence greatly. The fans play a big part in a players development and confidence. I get this is a forum, but 99% of the posts critizing the guy are not constructive nor created for debate, but merely to bash the guy. 

No he hasn't been flawless, he's been shit. 

Dortmund while you're at it wouldn't buy a player like Wes. They would prefer their 22 million quid investment to actually be able to control a ball, head a ball, shoot a ball, have pace, have some idea about off ball movement. 

Dortmund would actually require to see some fundamental ability so there's a chance a long term development can occur in sufficient time. 

It's absolutely obvious we should sign a new striker in January. Ideally we should loan Wes out to a championship club, but it's very unlikely he will pull up any roots there either. He simply isn't a footballer. 

Deano paid £ 22 million for him and that's probably hard to swallow, but sticking with him without getting in rotation options would be **** nuts. 

Even if Wesley by magic learned how to play football, what do we do when he gets injured? 

[Zatman]

46 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

No he hasn't been flawless, he's been shit. 

Dortmund while you're at it wouldn't buy a player like Wes. They would prefer their 22 million quid investment to actually be able to control a ball, head a ball, shoot a ball, have pace, have some idea about off ball movement. 

Dortmund would actually require to see some fundamental ability so there's a chance a long term development can occur in sufficient time. 

It's absolutely obvious we should sign a new striker in January. Ideally we should loan Wes out to a championship club, but it's very unlikely he will pull up any roots there either. He simply isn't a footballer. 

Deano paid £ 22 million for him and that's probably hard to swallow, but sticking with him without getting in rotation options would be **** nuts. 

Even if Wesley by magic learned how to play football, what do we do when he gets injured? 

Didnt you suggest we either drop or sell Jack a few months ago

Edited December 7, 2019 by Zatman

[KenjiOgiwara]

Just now, Zatman said:

Didnt you suggest we sell Jack a few months ago

I would really prefer it if you actually add the context of what was said if you are gonna try and be a smart ass. It was literally just covered on this forum. 

If point scoring is your game, keep right on. 

[AVTuco]

15 hours ago, Pelle said:

So what if they're only tap ins?

I don't think Wes is any good, but you are completely right here. All goals are equal. Tap-ins all day for me.

[AVTuco]

13 hours ago, Keyblade said:

It's 15 games my man. Declaring him a definite dud is literally proving my point.

Of course there is an outside chance he'll come good, but 15 games is enough to make a reasonable evaluation of a player. 

[AVTuco]

9 hours ago, Laughable Chimp said:

Been searching for it for a while, but finally found it. Transfermarkt actually ranks all the centre forwards by minute per goal. Good, I don't have to manually calculate or find for each one.

Wesley is number 36 out of 38 centre forwards who've scored a goal this season in terms of minutes per goals. The only 2 who are worse in that regard are Andre Gray and Joelinton.

And with that, I think I'm done with searching up Wesley stats for awhile.

Could you copy the current list here mate?

[screwdriver]

It's no wonder smith keeps defending wesley in press confereences.

Smith and Jesus threw wesley under the bus asking him to come in and do the business as a 22 year old green bananana. No other club would do business like this. They would have someone in the squad for him to compete with and learn off. As it is Villa have no strikers with top level experience. This shocking oversight could be the one thing that dumps us out of the division. Wesley Kodjia and Davies will hit the ground running it'll be fine. No it's NOT! It was a massive gamble thats failed!

What we needed was a premier league veteran to act as mentor to give him the low down on the dark arts of prem football. Someone like Daniel Sturidge would have ticked all the boxes. His injury record would mean Wesley would get plenty of game time and he'd chip in with a few goals. When a raw benteke joined Agbonlahor was at the club. He'd proved himself scoring goals under O'Neil and getting his cap(s). What happened to his career after 2014 happened. but he was already proven. Even when Gab broke into the team he had players like Angel and CArew to shadow....show them the path to the glory, put the medals on the table and the lamborgini car keys. What has Wesley got? Richard O'Kelly barking at him in his medievil dialect whilst waving a screwdriver he uses to start his ford mondeo?

As it is Wesley is only saved from being the laughing stock of the prem by newcastles strikers being more expensive and just as shit!

Edited December 7, 2019 by screwdriver
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