Dean Smith

[DCJonah]

34 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

Mate, we're literally above the relegation spot on goal difference, that is not success or at the very least its just not failure.

I get the expectations wise, finishing above the relegation spots was always the goal before the start of the season. The thing is, the more I watch Smith the more I think to myself he really should be doing better as a manager. To put it simply, I think our current crop of players are good enough(at least with a new striker) to finish mid-table which I have to commend Smith for getting them in the door, but at the same time I just don't think he's tactically a very good manager in games so that aspect of him drags us down. 

I'm not asking for a new manager, I don't think anyone here is. But if I have to be completely honest, I've just haven't seen enough evidence that Smith is good enough as a manager to bring us up in the long term if we do stick with him.

The target is stay in the league. Doesn't matter if its goal difference we are in that position. You think liverpool fans will moan if they win the league on goal difference?

Of course you haven't seen enough evidence. He's been here 12 months. 

[KentVillan]

In Smith's defence:

• Our best signings (Engels, Konsa, Targett) were Smith picks I believe - I think he said he was monitoring Engels at Brentford, and obviously Konsa and Targett are players he knew from the Championship. Our weakest signings have been the Suso recommendations. So I wouldn't start tearing into Smith because the squad rebuild hasn't quite worked out yet - it's not entirely his responsibility.
• People keep talking about options and plan Bs, but we don't really have much to choose from. We don't have a lightning fast striker or winger to bring on and change the game. We don't have the personnel for 4-4-2 or 3-5-2 really.
• He does tend to get good results in the games that matter - the six pointers against our relegation rivals.
• Leicester game is the first time I've really seen us roll over for a team. We have been competitive in most matches.
• What he says in public won't always be what he believes privately. He's not going to go out and start digging out his own players. Good managers rarely do that. Mourinho tried it at United, and it backfired on him in a big way.
• We are still well on course to stay up. Judge him after the next 4 games, where we're expecting some wins. If those go badly, then maybe there's an argument for questioning him, but at the moment, this is all a huge overreaction to a game against a flying Leicester team who are very, very hard to beat.

[Laughable Chimp]

3 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

The target is stay in the league. Doesn't matter if its goal difference we are in that position. You think liverpool fans will moan if they win the league on goal difference?

Of course you haven't seen enough evidence. He's been here 12 months. 

12 months is plenty of time to judge a manager lol. Some managers don't even stay in their job for that long. 

Edited December 8, 2019 by Laughable Chimp

[MaVilla]

1 minute ago, Laughable Chimp said:

12 months of plenty of time to judge a manager lol. Some managers don't even stay in their job for that long. 

Yeah and in 12 months he took us from mid table in the championship to playoff winners and promotion, so not a bad 12 months.

Edited December 8, 2019 by MaVilla

[DCJonah]

1 minute ago, Laughable Chimp said:

12 months is plenty of time to judge a manager lol. Some managers don't even stay in their job for that long. 

So you ignore the absolute miracle performed to get us up?

If you're going on this. He got us promoted and has us sitting in our target place. 

Seriously what the **** else did you expect 12 months ago? Because if it was more than this then you must have been on crack. 

[Laughable Chimp]

9 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

So you ignore the absolute miracle performed to get us up?

If you're going on this. He got us promoted and has us sitting in our target place. 

Seriously what the **** else did you expect 12 months ago? Because if it was more than this then you must have been on crack. 

Ah, I got set up for that retort. I knew it was coming. Should've made it clear earlier I was using his performances in the PL to judge him as a PL manager so far so it would've been 4 months actually.

Edited December 8, 2019 by Laughable Chimp

[foreveryoung]

The changes he makes or don't make proves his inability and inexperience. Not bringing Mings off straight away today or even getting Engles to warm up speaks volumes. He's far from a reaction manager, weather it's changing tactics or substitutions, they never seem to make any difference, an don't get me onto tightening up the defense, cause it's none existent.

I've calmed down a bit now, an my comments were not just because of the Leicester game, yes Leicester are quality, an I was expecting to lose, but it's the same mistakes and tactics every game. Anyway lets see how the next 4 games go, but if we don't get at least 6 points, sentiments out the window, we will need to consider if we want to stay in the Premier League.

 

[jacketspuds]

I think my frustration is lessened by the fact that we are still not in the relegation zone. However, I am very concerned about how lost we seem when we get near the box. We don't know how to use Wesley, who doesn't look like he wants the ball, and we are suffering from a significantly under-performing McGinn.

[foreveryoung]

8 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

So you ignore the absolute miracle performed to get us up?

If you're going on this. He got us promoted and has us sitting in our target place. 

Seriously what the **** else did you expect 12 months ago? Because if it was more than this then you must have been on crack. 

Sheffield United say hi. Why should we so far away from them, an Wolves have they a much better squad or manager??

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

Anyone else think after initial euphoria and adrenaline of being in the Premier League, some of our players might just be coming down to their ACTUAL level?

[DCJonah]

2 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Sheffield United say hi. Why should we so far away from them, an Wolves have they a much better squad or manager??

Are you kidding? The wolves squad is much better. They finished in Europe last year, we finished 5th in the championship. 

Sheff united are doing well, that's not a signal everyone who isn't is a failure. 

This is the problem, fans can't adapt to what we are. We are a newly promoted team scraping to stay up. We need to get that sorted because when we turn on the manager and players we're ****. 

[Keyblade]

People keep going on about us spending 120m. Of that 120m, 70m was spent just to stand still as the team that finished 5th in the Championship (not even standing still, Wesley is a massive downgrade on Tammy).

We spent about 50m improving the team to give us a chance at staying up. Going into this season with a brand new team, I'm not sure why anybody in their right minds would expect anything other than safety in our first season back up, especially after the last 3 years we had. You'd think Villa fans of all people would have learned how to rein in their expectations and be realistic. 

[KentVillan]

5 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Anyone else think after initial euphoria and adrenaline of being in the Premier League, some of our players might just be coming down to their ACTUAL level?

No, I think we've just had a really tough run of fixtures, and that's exposed us as the 15th or 16th most valuable squad in the league.

[foreveryoung]

Just now, DCJonah said:

Are you kidding? The wolves squad is much better. They finished in Europe last year, we finished 5th in the championship. 

Sheff united are doing well, that's not a signal everyone who isn't is a failure. 

This is the problem, fans can't adapt to what we are. We are a newly promoted team scraping to stay up. We need to get that sorted because when we turn on the manager and players we're ****. 

But Smith's tactics are not going to change chap. He is a gung ho attacking manager, with limited experience, it won't work in this league. Our squad is no worse than Sheffield united, it's just they are drilled much much better, you can tell from there manages persona, he takes no shit. Smith on the other hand couldn't even get Mings off the pitch when he did his hamstring??

An whats the score with Wes?? Is he bottling not dropping him, although he's subs make no difference to a game whatsoever anyway, mainly because he never changes the tactics.

[Dr_Pangloss]

This Sheffield side has been established over the past 2 and a half seasons. A lot of their key players have been in the side since 2017. Wilder has had a lot of time to establish their identity and coach this set of players in the way that he wants them to play. I can see why Sheffield are doing well on this basis. Smith on the other hand picked us up in an utter mess, worked miracles to get us up and then had no choice but to invest heavily in the first team, with clearly a number of signings being out of his hands for the most part.

That's not to say that we shouldn't be looking to win when we play them, of course we should, but Smith has a much trickier job on his hands. 

[KentVillan]

1 minute ago, foreveryoung said:

But Smith's tactics are not going to change chap. He is a gung ho attacking manager, with limited experience, it won't work in this league. Our squad is no worse than Sheffield united, it's just they are drilled much much better, you can tell from there manages persona, he takes no shit. Smith on the other hand couldn't even get Mings off the pitch when he did his hamstring??

An whats the score with Wes?? Is he bottling not dropping him, although he's subs make no difference to a game whatsoever anyway, mainly because he never changes the tactics.

The Sheffield Utd comparison is very lazy.

I mentioned this before somewhere, but Sheffield Utd's squad is much more settled - they regularly start about 7 or 8 of the players who started for them in the Championship last season.

All teams take time to gel. 16 games is nothing really. I know we all want quick results, but this is basically the second team Smith has had to build at Villa, and that first team he built took 22 matches to hit their stride.

Fans who are turning on Smith already are a bit of an embarrassment to the club IMO.

[villalad21]

31 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

So you ignore the absolute miracle performed to get us up?

If you're going on this. He got us promoted and has us sitting in our target place. 

Seriously what the **** else did you expect 12 months ago? Because if it was more than this then you must have been on crack. 

Ranieri won the league with Leicester and they rightfully sacked him.

[Dr_Pangloss]

10 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

People keep going on about us spending 120m. Of that 120m, 70m was spent just to stand still as the team that finished 5th in the Championship (not even standing still, Wesley is a massive downgrade on Tammy).

We spent about 50m improving the team to give us a chance at staying up. Going into this season with a brand new team, I'm not sure why anybody in their right minds would expect anything other than safety in our first season back up, especially after the last 3 years we had. You'd think Villa fans of all people would have learned how to rein in their expectations and be realistic. 

This is exactly it. Had we spent nothing and kept the lot that brought us up (baring in mind players like Abraham, Mings, Tuanzebe and El Ghazi would have gone) then you've got a squad that would be going down with a record low points total, it was that bad.

So yeah, we had to invest heavily just to give us a fighting chance of staying up. We can of course debate how well that money was spent (Wesley being a real issue for me) but that kind of expenditure was necessary. Hilarious to read posts back in the summer suggesting we have an outside chance of a top half finish.

[Davkaus]

I'm not too worried about the league position. I think we have some very winnable games coming up, and I expect us to finish the season stronger than we started it.

Some aspects of his game management scare the shit out of me though. That first goal was entirely on Smith, it was his hesitance to make subs summed up in a couple of minutes. 

I'm still fully behind him. He's the man that reignited my love for Villa after a decade of shit turning me away, the 4 year contract may turn out to be a very expensive mistake though.

Edited December 8, 2019 by Davkaus

[Zatman]

I think people forgetting today was probably a tough day for Dean, he grew up a Villa fan and maybe the circumstances has effected him as well. He is only human