hippo Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Eastie said: Smith went on several similar spells at Brentford where they went on bad spells without a win - and that was with his players playing his way - he’s had a habit of going on winning runs or losing runs without ever really getting consistency long term Yep - he left them with 0 wins in 5 matches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Just now, hippo said: Yep - he left them with 0 wins in 5 matches They had far worse runs than that during his time there too - seemed to often either be on a great unbeaten run or long winless run as our Brentford friends will confirm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7392craig Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, Eastie said: Smith went on several similar spells at Brentford where they went on bad spells without a win - and that was with his players playing his way - he’s had a habit of going on winning runs or losing runs without ever really getting consistency long term Worrying for the future. But he deserves his chance, and we can’t attract a manager of any known quality anyway, so we’ll just have to see how it goes with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 The rebuilding job is happening regardless if Smith is here or not. I don't get why we have to stick by him when there are better options available. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) If he’s still here by the end of the year i’ll be very surprised. And that’s not me saying I want him out. Edited February 17, 2019 by Rugeley Villa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, villalad21 said: The rebuilding job is happening regardless if Smith is here or not. I don't get why we have to stick by him when there are better options available. Who are these better options? Dont say Big Sam because he will just make the same issue 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 6 hours ago, sne said: I don't really buy that the type of football Smith wants us to play is so complicated or demanding that he needs a completely different set of players with different abilities to make it work. It's not revolutionary stuff. Pass and move, pressing and what not. Every footballer can do, if they want to. Think the issue is more that we have ad elderly, non motivated squad full of players who know they wont be here next season, they don't care. You can see that the heads are gone on a lot of players, sure you can argue that it's Smith's job to motivate them, but with what? Sadly those who still try are either a bit crap or does no longer have the legs to make it. With that said I don's think Smith is anything special in the world of football and if he can't get a tune out of the players for the rest of the season I think it would be sensible to look elsewhere to see if we can attract a higher quality manager. I think actually for some of these players, "pass and move, pressing and what not" is very far removed from what they've done for their whole careers. Sure, they can pass a football accurately, but it's the positioning, movement off the ball, how long they keep the ball before releasing, the decision making, etc. which might be unnatural. Also, players are individuals with personalities and opinions, and varying levels of intelligence. Pressing systems are particularly prone to one or two players not doing their job. Some players are very adaptable to different systems (I reckon Whelan fits into this category) and some struggle unless the team suits their style (Hourihane, Kodjia). I've only watched the highlights of the West Brom game, but Hourihane is again at fault for one of their goals with a pathetically soft tackle. When you're turning relatively easy tackles into 50-50s, something is wrong with your attitude. Hourihane in my view is a selfish player who plays for goal / assist stats and highlight reels. Smith should drop him, but it's hard to see who replaces him!? I'm frustrated by recent results and agree with some of hippo's points about Smith's record being overegged, but I still think he's dealing with a really shit hand, and has also been quite unlucky with injuries and freak goals. I would only support sacking him if a very good replacement were available, and if it was a sensible time to change the management (i.e. not mid-season). I think realistically that means giving Smith the whole of next season. We've had decades of underachievement, what's another mediocre season in the grand scheme of things? If you back your managers and give them time, you become a more attractive club to play at or manage. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keener window-cleaner Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) 51 minutes ago, KentVillan said: My worry is that is actually the problem at the moment. He's getting good performances out of "his" players, but he seems to have lost all of Bruce's players, who still make up most of the team. I wonder what's going on behind the scenes. He doesn't necessarily have to have lost Bruce's players, it could be as easy as many of them reaching retirement this year, and it wasn't like they set the world alight under Bruce. Whelan 35, Jedinak 35, Alan Hutton 35, Elmohamady 32, Elphick 32, Taylor 30. Injuries have meant we cant rotate as much as needed, especially with these older players, they cant play two times a week a whole season. The pressing and passing style we want to play is more demanding than just hoofing it and then take a rest. The players aren't suited to it. And only a few are actually good passers of the ball. One misstake I think DS has made is that he hasn't played more of our younger players. Instead of letting them go out on loan we should have been playing them, givning them game time and preparing them for next season. Edited February 17, 2019 by Keener window-cleaner 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 22 minutes ago, Zatman said: Who are these better options? Dont say Big Sam because he will just make the same issue The main names I’ve seen touted on here are jokanovic and Wagner and both credible options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakotaDakota Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 46 minutes ago, KentVillan said: My worry is that is actually the problem at the moment. He's getting good performances out of "his" players, but he seems to have lost all of Bruce's players, who still make up most of the team. I wonder what's going on behind the scenes. They aren't "his" players anyway really other than kalinic who looks as bad as nyland and a french guy who could be good or could be shit. There is no way Mings will be here next year, Hause looks awful & Carroll isn't even fit enough to play. In 3 months time our entire squad will consist of : Nyland, Kalinic, Guilbert, Chester, Bree, Taylor Adomah, Bjarnason, Elmo, Hourihane, McGinn, Grealish, Lansbury, Green, McCormack, Tshibola Hogan, Davis, Kodjia + some kids There is going to be an awful lot of building to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Eastie said: The main names I’ve seen touted on here are jokanovic and Wagner and both credible options. Would you take them over Rodgers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam3773 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Would you take them over Rodgers? If the job became available, it would be Rodgers or Jokanovic for me and I suspect the latter would be more attainable. Edited February 17, 2019 by Sam3773 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 People criticize Dean Smith as being bad at organising defences yet suggest Rodgers and Jokanovic 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keener window-cleaner Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 To ppl who want DS out now, what do you expect a new manager would be able to do with our current midfield? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam3773 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Just now, Zatman said: People criticize Dean Smith as being bad at organising defences yet suggest Rodgers and Jokanovic In terms of style, there's probably nothing in it between Jokanovic and Smith. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakotaDakota Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Keener window-cleaner said: Whelan 35, Jedinak 35, Alan Hutton 35, Elmohamady 32, Elphick 32, Taylor 30. Injuries have meant we cant rotate as much as needed, especially with these older players, they cant play two times a week a whole season. The pressing and passing style we want to play is more demanding than just hoofing it and then take a rest. The players aren't suited to it. And only a few are actually good passers of the ball. This is one of the greatest myths about this division. Games come thick & fast, 2 games per week, blah blah blah. It is complete & utter shit.... There are 8 midweek rounds of games, that is it. Sure you play a few more games over christmas/new year and if you end up in cup semi finals or something you will play a few more but otherwise you play 1 game per week for the majority of the season. It might be on a sunday one week or friday the next but it is still one game. Ignore Tuesday Jan 1st as it was new years day and everyone plays regardless and we have played 1 midweek game in 2019, that was this week against Brentford, Our next one is Weds 13th March, Then Weds 10th April Edited February 17, 2019 by LakotaDakota Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keener window-cleaner Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Just now, LakotaDakota said: This is one of the greatest myths about this division. It is complete & utter shit There are 8 midweek rounds of games, that is it. Sure you play a few more games over christmas/new year and if you end up in cup semi finals or something you will play a few more but otherwise you play 1 game per week for the majority of the season. It might be on a sunday one week or friday the next but it is still one game. Ignore Tuesday Jan 1st as it was new years day and everyone plays regardless and we have played 1 midweek game in 2019, that was this week against Brentford, Our next one is Weds 13th March, Then Weds 10th April Well most of them 30+ players wont be able to play once a week for a full season either, so point still stands. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakotaDakota Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Just now, Keener window-cleaner said: Well most of them 30+ players wont be able to play once a week for a full season either, so point still stands. August 6th to May5th is 273 days. 273 days to cram in 46 games, I just don't know how these poor people getting paid 2 million quid per year to play football can possibly cope with the demands of actually playing a game of football every 6 days or so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New_Hope Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Eastie said: The main names I’ve seen touted on here are jokanovic and Wagner and both credible options. Are they f^^k without the ££££ that we don't have and Wagner ffs, for a German did not play good football! Edited February 17, 2019 by New_Hope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Getting in a new manager and sacking him without a full pre-season and a summer transfer window is just plain bonkers. Criticize our performances all you want, but calling for his head is just ridiculous. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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