Popular Post striker Posted February 18, 2019 Visiting Supporter Popular Post Share Posted February 18, 2019 Don’t think for a minute it is in the minds of the owners to sack DS and rightly so. Villa are looking at a major clear out of playing staff in the summer no matter what league they find themselves in next season so just imagine the turmoil it would cause sacking a manager who has started to bring his own players in to play in a style he wants plus has had several months to appraise which players he doesn’t want. I would say most of the players on the fans unwanted lists would also be on Dean Smith’s list so bringing in yet another new manager would delay that process further for obvious reasons. The question for me isn’t whether DS is the right man to change Villa to a more progressive style of football and sign the right players to do it (you only have to look at his former team). The question for me is whether he has the nous as a manager to sustain enough results throughout a full season to get Villa promoted? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 1 minute ago, striker said: Don’t think for a minute it is in the minds of the owners to sack DS and rightly so. Villa are looking at a major clear out of playing staff in the summer no matter what league they find themselves in next season so just imagine the turmoil it would cause sacking a manager who has started to bring his own players in to play in a style he wants plus has had several months to appraise which players he doesn’t want. I would say most of the players on the fans unwanted lists would also be on Dean Smith’s list so bringing in yet another new manager would delay that process further for obvious reasons. The question for me isn’t whether DS is the right man to change Villa to a more progressive style of football and sign the right players to do it (you only have to look at his former team). The question for me is whether he has the nous as a manager to sustain enough results throughout a full season to get Villa promoted? Certainly agree they would not be considering sacking him at this point - however he does need to turn this run around before the end of the season or they may well review things should we finish closer to the bottom 6 than the top 6 . ‘For me the jury is still out but after such a bright start the last 2 months have been hugely disappointing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Darth Villa said: Hi @hippo, I don't for one second believe that the team-talk goes the way you've indicated and that wasn't what I was trying to imply in my original post either. What I was trying to get at was the "promotion or bust" FFP pressure from the owners seems to have evaporated, I believe that is perhaps subconsciously allowing some players to adopt a less than 100% effort attitude (as injuries have limited replacement options) and when combined with contracts coming to an end we have a distinct lack of motivation for the "physical dynamic" needed to play the high tempo pressing game that Smith aspires towards. I believe Smith still wants to win and tries to instil this in the team, he's one of us after all. The players (some of them anyway) just don't give a toss anymore as most of them will be gone in the summer Im not saying it easy - for many like many others I had to do what I was told at work to keep a roof over my head and put food on the table. Footballers don't have that pressure - once they are pro - provided they are sensible they are financially secure - but I think they care about there own careers - if they play well they get better contracts at better clubs - so I don't buy the not caring/motivated argument to any great extent - more of an issue for me is are they thinking "Smithy - wots he know" - Imagine the respect Terry would get when he walked into a dressing room - contrast that with Smith who has spent his playing and managerial careers in the lower leagues , never really doing much. Graham Turner 1980's villa manager admitted years later he struggled with that as manager - he said the players mentally ask "Show us you're Medals" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 1 hour ago, New_Hope said: So we pay yet more compo for Smith's dismissal and pay out for the proven premier league failure Jokanovic or the modern day equivalent of George Graham?!?! That makes perfect sense Proven premier league failure who got his team promoted on far less than Villa have spent on players , or a manager whose highest finish is mid table in the championship ? yes I think smith deserves more time but to be deriding the likes of jokanovic or Wagner who have achieved promotion already on far less budgets is bizarre . lets worry about who manages us in the premier league when we get there - we need a manager to get us out of this division and hopefully smith achieves it in the right direction . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante_Lockhart Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 I think there's a few players in the squad who know they aren't in the long term plans of DS, hence the drop in form. Where-as when he first came in they were fighting tooth and nail to impress, I think a lot have just become complacent. How can you motivate someone who knows they're surplus to requirements and will be moved on in the summer? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 16 minutes ago, striker said: Don’t think for a minute it is in the minds of the owners to sack DS and rightly so. I agree. I wonder if their confidence will wane if we lose our next seven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 5 minutes ago, striker said: Don’t think for a minute it is in the minds of the owners to sack DS and rightly so. Villa are looking at a major clear out of playing staff in the summer no matter what league they find themselves in next season so just imagine the turmoil it would cause sacking a manager who has started to bring his own players in to play in a style he wants plus has had several months to appraise which players he doesn’t want. I would say most of the players on the fans unwanted lists would also be on Dean Smith’s list so bringing in yet another new manager would delay that process further for obvious reasons. The question for me isn’t whether DS is the right man to change Villa to a more progressive style of football and sign the right players to do it (you only have to look at his former team). The question for me is whether he has the nous as a manager to sustain enough results throughout a full season to get Villa promoted? 1. I reckon it will be in the minds of the owners to dismiss smith before the end of this year - maybe even the end of next month if the win less streak continues. 2. Personally I think they would less likely to change if they could see some evidence that Smith was on the right track 3.The DS type of football is as much about conceding goals as the progressive style Personally I think the owners should ask themselves do they want to be changing manager pre season - or do they want to be changing manager in November December when the managerial pickings are so sparse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 2 hours ago, New_Hope said: So we pay yet more compo for Smith's dismissal and pay out for the proven premier league failure Jokanovic or the modern day equivalent of George Graham?!?! That makes perfect sense Vs just sticking with a proven very average manager, based on nothing but blind faith and he used to clean the bogs at Villa Park. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mottaloo Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, Dante_Lockhart said: How can you motivate someone who knows they're surplus to requirements and will be moved on in the summer? I would imagine there are plenty of eyes on our squad from elsewhere and if my contract was up (and i knew for a fact villa didn't want me next season) then I'd be thinking "shop window" and bust a gut to be noticed by other clubs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkLillis Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 We have got to tough this one out. I don’t know if Dean Smith is the man for the job,how can anybody yet? Of course it looks bad now and the fact that we have not reacted to the loss of Jack in any obvious(to me...) way has sown the first seeds of doubt in my mind. We should haves started to rebuild when we went down,now it’s upto Dean and I hope he’s not treated like Paul Lambert was! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, MarkLillis said: We have got to tough this one out. I don’t know if Dean Smith is the man for the job,how can anybody yet? Of course it looks bad now and the fact that we have not reacted to the loss of Jack in any obvious(to me...) way has sown the first seeds of doubt in my mind. We should haves started to rebuild when we went down,now it’s upto Dean and I hope he’s not treated like Paul Lambert was! Lambert got a new contract didn't he ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted February 18, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted February 18, 2019 16 minutes ago, Eastie said: Proven premier league failure who got his team promoted on far less than Villa have spent on players , or a manager whose highest finish is mid table in the championship ? yes I think smith deserves more time but to be deriding the likes of jokanovic or Wagner who have achieved promotion already on far less budgets is bizarre . lets worry about who manages us in the premier league when we get there - we need a manager to get us out of this division and hopefully smith achieves it in the right direction . They achieved it on far less than the previous owners gave previous managers, that's got nothing to do with Smith. I think it is fari to say that both Fulham and Huddersfield were paying several times more in wages than what Brentford could afford so that's not exactly a fair comparison. What is certain is that Smith will have more resources to work with here, and that mid term (next couple of years) we expect to go up to the Premier League and next season we expect to be at least playoffs. Why we are talking about other managers is beyond me, the owners should come out and say Pitarch and Smith are the team that will do the rebuild after the mass clearout in the summer and that's that. They may well have cooked up with Smith the idea to send the u23s away from VP as they were aware that any dip in form of the team would make it a toxic place to play and they could get better experience elsewhere till the summer. That's conjecture but anyway for what it's worth Jokanovic is a good coach who got found out a bit defensively in the top flight but I would expect him to learn from that experience and be better for it. Wagner I really like, even though he doesn't exactly try to light up the pitch with the beautiful game (though that may well have been due to what he had to work with at Huddersfield) but there's something about him, he can organise a team very well and I'd expect him to be a success somewhere at a bigger club one day. That's got **** all to do with Smith though, and I think it would be better for everyone to forget about Smith getting sacked and to back him and the new regime to get the massive opportunity that is the coming summer right. If we can draw a line under the bullshit overpaying in fees and wages for players with no resale value and get some quality that we can develop and improve it could well be the start of a new dawn. Sack Smith get in someone with a remit to go up immediately and throw loads of wages at it again and fail and it woudl take years to recover. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Paul33 Posted February 18, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 18, 2019 Try as I might, I couldn't see the likes of Klopp or any top manager suddenly turning the likes of Adomah, Hourihane, Bjarnasson, Green, Elmohamady, etc, etc into anything other than the bang mediocre League One players that they are. The only way forward is to replace them all with players with real potential AND who are moving towards realising that potential. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted February 18, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted February 18, 2019 15 minutes ago, mottaloo said: I would imagine there are plenty of eyes on our squad from elsewhere and if my contract was up (and i knew for a fact villa didn't want me next season) then I'd be thinking "shop window" and bust a gut to be noticed by other clubs. yeah you and me both, but we've seen plenty of players in claret and blue over the last decade or so that really couldn't give a shit as long as the £40k a week hits the bank on time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 (edited) 50 minutes ago, striker said: Don’t think for a minute it is in the minds of the owners to sack DS and rightly so. Villa are looking at a major clear out of playing staff in the summer no matter what league they find themselves in next season so just imagine the turmoil it would cause sacking a manager who has started to bring his own players in to play in a style he wants plus has had several months to appraise which players he doesn’t want. I would say most of the players on the fans unwanted lists would also be on Dean Smith’s list so bringing in yet another new manager would delay that process further for obvious reasons. The question for me isn’t whether DS is the right man to change Villa to a more progressive style of football and sign the right players to do it (you only have to look at his former team). The question for me is whether he has the nous as a manager to sustain enough results throughout a full season to get Villa promoted? I hope it would be in their minds to change the manager if things carry on how they are. If what we have witnessed since December until now carries on until May then the pressure mounted will be too much for the manager to deal with and the board would need to act. If the club acted before DS brought in anyone else then no damage would really be done imo. So far he has purchased on player in Kalinic so no harm done really. No matter what manager comes in, most of these players are gone anyway and it would give any new manager a blank canvas to work with without having to clear out DS signings on top of this so I do not see any delay on that front either. How things have gone so far it is looking likely that DS is not the man to change Villa to a more progressive style and that is looking at his former team who also never reached more than midtable and they are ALL of his signings. Fwiw I would also like us to set our stall out higher than the likes of Wagner or Jankovic. - Both great in this league but came unstuck once up in the PL. (Jankovic tanned £100m on players and they have got nowhere). If I could choose, it would be to try our best to lure a proven PL manager down to this level to build a club on a long term project to take us back to the PL and sustain being in the PL with a steady build along the way whilst clearing out the entire squad bar Jack & John. Who that manager could be? Ranieri, Benitez, Sanchez Flores, Puel or Wenger. (Tin hat is ready for suggesting those 5 managers) Edited February 18, 2019 by AvfcRigo82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimlico_Villa Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 19 minutes ago, Paul33 said: Try as I might, I couldn't see the likes of Klopp or any top manager suddenly turning the likes of Adomah, Hourihane, Bjarnasson, Green, Elmohamady, etc, etc into anything other than the bang mediocre League One players that they are. The only way forward is to replace them all with players with real potential AND who are moving towards realising that potential. This is very true, but the incompetency shown in the January window makes me question whether we could do this properly. Building a new team in a Summer is a huge ask, which is why when we capitulated in January we should have utilised the rest of this season to blood the youth so they can hit the ground running next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New_Hope Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 What incompetence?? You know f$#k all of what we tried and what we succeeded on in the Jan transfer window....like the rest of us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 18 minutes ago, romavillan said: They achieved it on far less than the previous owners gave previous managers, that's got nothing to do with Smith. I think it is fari to say that both Fulham and Huddersfield were paying several times more in wages than what Brentford could afford so that's not exactly a fair comparison. What is certain is that Smith will have more resources to work with here, and that mid term (next couple of years) we expect to go up to the Premier League and next season we expect to be at least playoffs. Why we are talking about other managers is beyond me, the owners should come out and say Pitarch and Smith are the team that will do the rebuild after the mass clearout in the summer and that's that. They may well have cooked up with Smith the idea to send the u23s away from VP as they were aware that any dip in form of the team would make it a toxic place to play and they could get better experience elsewhere till the summer. That's conjecture but anyway for what it's worth Jokanovic is a good coach who got found out a bit defensively in the top flight but I would expect him to learn from that experience and be better for it. Wagner I really like, even though he doesn't exactly try to light up the pitch with the beautiful game (though that may well have been due to what he had to work with at Huddersfield) but there's something about him, he can organise a team very well and I'd expect him to be a success somewhere at a bigger club one day. That's got **** all to do with Smith though, and I think it would be better for everyone to forget about Smith getting sacked and to back him and the new regime to get the massive opportunity that is the coming summer right. If we can draw a line under the bullshit overpaying in fees and wages for players with no resale value and get some quality that we can develop and improve it could well be the start of a new dawn. Sack Smith get in someone with a remit to go up immediately and throw loads of wages at it again and fail and it woudl take years to recover. But Smith progressed Brenford not one ioata in 3 years with them. Sure he always had to sell his better players - but then the set up at Brentford unearths good players for small fees (Mapham, Maupay). His only real achievement was saving a near certainly relegated walsall from the drop - but even than after that they stagnated in Midtable. Sure give him time - but there is very little to suggest he will kick on from here - even with his own players... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimlico_Villa Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, New_Hope said: What incompetence?? You know f$#k all of what we tried and what we succeeded on in the Jan transfer window....like the rest of us! I know it wobbles your bubble, but believe it or not, criticism of this regime is perfectly legitimate. You don't know what I may or could know so don't pretend to. The undeniable sign of incompetency is not signing a LB - on loan or otherwise - despite it being an emergency situation since August. That is 6 months to source and transact yet it yielded no results. Secondly, signing an injured player in Carroll. That was a new low even for us. Edited February 18, 2019 by Pimlico_Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 10 minutes ago, New_Hope said: What incompetence?? You know f$#k all of what we tried and what we succeeded on in the Jan transfer window....like the rest of us! We know the players we succeeded in getting Kallnic - ok, but is he much of an upgrade on Steer ? Mings - quality - but can we can him permanently Hause - reasonable championship player Carrol - Injured at Fulham and now injured here - not that great even when fit Mixed bag - nothing to suggest we are on the cusp of unearthing 10 - 12 gems over the summer - and that Smith will be able to manage them to any great heights. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts