Dean Smith

[Vive_La_Villa]

21 hours ago, TRO said:

errrrrr, excuse me.

I was just putting the record straight, that M_Afro said "He inherited a team that was doing well".....at that time they wasn't

But while we are here....why not glean points from a team that we got to win the European cup? what a benchmark.....just because you may not have been around, don't be so sensitive in being left out.

Sorry TRO didn’t mean to offend. It was a time when you could win a league only using 14 players all season. Football is at another level now. 

But anyway going off topic now. 

[ozvillafan]

40 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

this is where i'm at. it's not that smith needs HIS players per se, it's that he needs to get rid of the players we have. happy to keep kalinic, mcginn, and mings if we have option to buy (and give him the armband too) - the rest can all go.

Grealish too?

[TRO]

37 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Sorry TRO didn’t mean to offend. It was a time when you could win a league only using 14 players all season. Football is at another level now. 

But anyway going off topic now. 

Yes it is and so much has changed.

But so much is still the same too, if you look for it, it depends on what bits folk want to focus on.

Passion and workrate and drive and enthusiasm, all for one and one for all attitude, might help....There are things in football, that never change and stand the test of time, we would do well to revisit them.

....playing one winger ( i.e Morley)as opposed to 2 could be a move to help the midfield at this tough time.....we end up with 2 passengers.

Incremental improvement which is what Ron Managed in his building, kept the natives quiet.....but same old errors and mistakes from the same old players every match will not fill fans with confidence....Dean needs to find a way of keeping fans onside, when things are tough.

I more than accept your view that times have changed and some things cannot be compared.....but when a team has been built from second tier players from around all the big clubs like Cropley, Rimmer,Swain, Gidman etc and added to the quality kids like Little, Shaw, Leonard, Williams, Gibson, & Cowans....and go on to win the league and Euro Cup.

Only a fool would ignore some of the components of that model.

Sure times have changed....but not to the point that players are still the central issue to gaining success.

We are low on confidence in so many of our players, but we have brought it all on ourselves, mainly with poor signings.....we need to rebuild we all know that, but a little look over our shoulder at yesteryear would not go amiss for me....Even Graham Taylors era, should not be ignored.

 

[Kiwivillan]

Unless my maths is wrong Smith no worse off in same number of games as Bruce after taking over from RDM and Bruce got 4 windows and spent flagrantly and didn't take care of key positions like both FBs. Why doesn't Smith deserve a fair crack? Also our record with Grealish and Axel under Smith vs without is night and day

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 minute ago, Kiwivillan said:

Unless my maths is wrong Smith no worse off in same number of games as Bruce after taking over from RDM and Bruce got 4 windows and spent flagrantly and didn't take care of key positions like both FBs. Why doesn't Smith deserve a fair crack? Also our record with Grealish and Axel under Smith vs without is night and day

I suppose you could argue Bruce’s previous record at getting clubs promoted helped his case. 

If we end the season with the current form we have now do we still stick with Smith if managers should as jokanovic and Wagner are available?

[Kiwivillan]

1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I suppose you could argue Bruce’s previous record at getting clubs promoted helped his case. 

If we end the season with the current form we have now do we still stick with Smith if managers should as jokanovic and Wagner are available?

Guardiola couldn't get a tune out of the rubbish that Smith is struggling to get a performance out of. I can't believe people can't acknowledge this?

[Vive_La_Villa]

Just now, Kiwivillan said:

Guardiola couldn't get a tune out of the rubbish that Smith is struggling to get a performance out of. I can't believe people can't acknowledge this?

I agree. I’m just saying the club will need to decide if Smith is the right man or if there are more proven options out there.  Especially if a big rebuild is required. 

Obviously they will be privy to what Smith is doing behind the scenes and his vision for the club. All us fans can go on are his past successes and current performance. 

[TRO]

11 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I suppose you could argue Bruce’s previous record at getting clubs promoted helped his case. 

If we end the season with the current form we have now do we still stick with Smith if managers should as jokanovic and Wagner are available?

I think we should stick with him....but if there is No improvement of any sort i.e player improvement as opposed to results....He might not get the time.

If fans and hierarchy, can see shoots of improvement, but results are still poor....it will encourage some to give him time.

I think, no improvement in any aspect results performance or individual player.....and I dont't think time will save him.

In any job that needs an overhaul....you have to show your bosses some tangible improvement of some sort, in order for them to give you time.

We have to understand that the financial demands of a club like Aston Villa are different from a club like Brentford, Dean will be subject to that pressure....If I was him, and results eluded me...I would find some tangible area of improvement that would buy me time....its no good trying to boil the Ocean, he needs to make a focused impact on something, that suggests in time it will be fixed.

[New_Hope]

So we pay yet more compo for Smith's dismissal and pay out for the proven premier league failure Jokanovic or the modern day equivalent of George Graham?!?!

That makes perfect sense

[TRO]

13 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I agree. I’m just saying the club will need to decide if Smith is the right man or if there are more proven options out there.  Especially if a big rebuild is required. 

Obviously they will be privy to what Smith is doing behind the scenes and his vision for the club. All us fans can go on are his past successes and current performance. 

The thing that worries me, is his ability in the transfer market...how well is he connected?

i.e Farke has bought in about 4/5 free transfers that have transformed his team, why?...because he is well connected in Germany and the mix in styles have brought balance.

Big money transfers, despite our owners wealth....spell massive pressure.....it strangles everyone and raises expectations beyond reason...FFP is another pressure.

We as a football club have always gained more success in prudency as opposed to Affluence.....some of the best players we have signed have been modest buys.

The job is not too big for him.....but it can be made too big for him, by financial pressure.

In my honest opinion.....We need to embark on a road where we are showing sure signs of prudency in the transfer market, getting them to BMH and turning them in to gladiators( metaphorically speaking of course)....there is sure to be opportunities in Div 1, that others are afraid to take the gamble.

The Maupays, Bowens , Dacks and Lolleys are too late...they will be expensive....we need to find our own.....they are out there, always have been always will be.

We need to have the coaches and scouts to earn their corn.

Edited February 18, 2019 by TRO

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 minute ago, New_Hope said:

So we pay yet more compo for Smith's dismissal and pay out for the proven premier league failure Jokanovic or the modern day equivalent of George Graham?!?!

That makes perfect sense

They were just a couple of examples of managers they have achieved promotion and are not in a job.

Other managers may be available. It will be a big decision for the club if they haven’t seen improvement. 

[Darth Villa]

8 hours ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

No problem bud, do you think he will be given the summer to build then?..

Cheers @AvfcRigo82, I do believe they'll give him the summer unless the position becomes untenable i.e. if we don't win another game and slip towards the relegation zone then it could make it impossible to keep him (a staggering statement after only 4 months!).  My belief is that our new owners are committed to a different model and will endure short-term pain for long-term gain but if Smith loses the plot completely (hence my interest in JT fall out rumours) then they'll have no choice (which would be a crying shame).  Ultimately, I think we'll pick up enough wins, in the near-term my fear is the response from "fans" if we get turned over at the Sty - that could see cabbages flying everywhere...

[AVFCDAN]

When Dean shows us something other than your classic honeymoon period upturn in form then he will get my support back. 

He has this season of course but if he wants another one he needs to show us something because we're up a creek without a paddle at the moment. The defence is leaking goals, confidence has gone in most of the players, we have no style of play and we're back to just lumping the ball around the field and seeing what happens. It doesn't matter if you are pro or anti Dean Smith, at the moment there is nothing to get behind at all. 

I appreciate his post match honesty of what isn't right but you need to do something about it Dean.

Edited February 18, 2019 by AVFCDAN

[New_Hope]

I've got an idea. Why don't we rejoice in the fact that our club wasn't wound up in the summer and that the new owners have a begun a rebuilding job of the club from top to bottom which will (If successful) deliver the type of football we have wanted for years whilst keeping the club solvent and sustainable?

Why don't we stop acting like spoilt little brats demanding this that and the other and let the manager get on with his side of the rebuilding job which has been made all the more difficult due to the tools at his disposal?

[Darth Villa]

3 hours ago, hippo said:

I doubt that is true. I would doubt any manager would send his team out saying "Do you best - but don't stress too much if the going gets tough"  - Any manager will try to win every game, friendlies, cup games etc..

Hi @hippo, I don't for one second believe that the team-talk goes the way you've indicated and that wasn't what I was trying to imply in my original post either.  What I was trying to get at was the "promotion or bust" FFP pressure from the owners seems to have evaporated, I believe that is perhaps subconsciously allowing some players to adopt a less than 100% effort attitude (as injuries have limited replacement options) and when combined with contracts coming to an end we have a distinct lack of motivation for the "physical dynamic" needed to play the high tempo pressing game that Smith aspires towards.

I believe Smith still wants to win and tries to instil this in the team, he's one of us after all.  The players (some of them anyway) just don't give a toss anymore as most of them will be gone in the summer 

[Vive_La_Villa]

28 minutes ago, New_Hope said:

I've got an idea. Why don't we rejoice in the fact that our club wasn't wound up in the summer and that the new owners have a begun a rebuilding job of the club from top to bottom which will (If successful) deliver the type of football we have wanted for years whilst keeping the club solvent and sustainable?

Why don't we stop acting like spoilt little brats demanding this that and the other and let the manager get on with his side of the rebuilding job which has been made all the more difficult due to the tools at his disposal?

Nobody is demanding anything. Fans are asking if he is the right man for such a big rebuild.

[LakotaDakota]

1 hour ago, Kiwivillan said:

Unless my maths is wrong Smith no worse off in same number of games as Bruce after taking over from RDM and Bruce got 4 windows and spent flagrantly and didn't take care of key positions like both FBs. Why doesn't Smith deserve a fair crack? Also our record with Grealish and Axel under Smith vs without is night and day

I guess the proof is in the rest of the season. At around this point under Bruce we went 9 games without a win but then won 7 of the next 8 which kinda makes up for it a bit.

If Smith were to do the same it woud definitely earn him some breathing room but does anyone honestly think we will even win 3 or 4 of the remaining 13 games, let alone 7 or 8?

This was Bruces first season : P35     W15     D7     L13     GD 37:36       pts52

Smith will be in charge for 34 gmes this year so it's a pretty good comparison i guess He is currently sat on : P21     W7     D8     L6     Gd 36:32       pts29

Edited February 18, 2019 by LakotaDakota

[Didiersix]

1 minute ago, LakotaDakota said:

If Smith were to do the same it woud definitely earn him some breathing room but does anyone honestly think we will even win 3 or 4 of the remaining 13 games, let alone 7 or 8?

1

Yes, I do. 

[New_Hope]

39 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Nobody is demanding anything. Fans are asking if he is the right man for such a big rebuild.

I disagree totally.  Some of our fans' demands on here regarding who we should replace DS with or sign as quick fixes have been very laughable!  We are ASTON VILLA afterall ffs!  Unfortunately that name doesn't mean as much to the footballing world at this moment in time.

Edited February 18, 2019 by New_Hope

[Tomaszk]

Really like Smith and we need to stick with a manager we believe in for at least a full season. I want it to be him.

There's going to be a big rebuild with or without him. There's going to be a turnaround of around 15 players this summer. Whoever is in will be given a great opportunity to mould a squad.

If Deano shows nothing beyond putting out the same 433/4141 every week and we get thumped every week, he's making it hard for me to be against replacing him at the end of the season. 

Yes the players aren't good enough in multiple positions, and plenty seem to have stopped trying. You can try a different shape, you can try passing out from the back again. We haven't taken a short goal kick in a month.

Obviously it would have to be a strong option to replace him, I have no interest in trash like Steve Bruce being allowed back at Villa. But someone like Jokanovic is going to look more appealing if we've crashed and burned for five months.