Dean Smith

[TrentVilla]

Badly run football clubs sack managers and then try and identify an appointment, see Spurs in the summer. Well run football clubs draw up potential replacements before making a decision to make a change. Then there are Watford.

Whatever any of us think regarding Smith I don’t think any of us would say we are a badly run club.

Back before lockdown there was quite a lot of talk about Villa looking at potential replacements for Smith, most notably Large who is now at Wolves was heavily reported at the time to have been contacted. We don’t know how accurate those reports were or if Smith was close to an exit.

Just as with transfers, most managerial appointments (at well run clubs) will have been sounded out before the incumbent departs. It is simply the prudent thing to do when running a business worth hundreds of millions and that is what clubs are as much as we like to think different.

Given how we are performing this season and how we have performed this year I would expect if they aren’t already those running the club will soon be thinking about potential replacements. That is just prudent club management because things aren’t good currently.

That doesn’t mean they will make a change but I’d be amazed if they aren’t at least looking at potential options should the need to make a change arise.

I don’t think he is anywhere close to going but I do think the pressure is going to build.

[Phil Silvers]

16 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

That isn't true though. 

We have sold Jack and released Heaton, Taylor and Elmo and loaned out Engels, Wes and Fred. Jack was the only first team starter and only Elmo got a look in on the bench. We have added more quality across the team but that is not a squad rebuild

Fair, I didn't word what I was thinking too well, to replace Jack, I think Deano is thinking he needs to change things more than just a one for one to replace Jack. We have let some stragglers go true but we have replaced Jack with multiple players which he is trying to shoehorn in asap. I really like Ings but he is a blind spot for Deano, he should be back up to Ollie and barring the unfortunate injuries, Leon in too replace Jack. The rest should be a steady bringing up to our ways rather then all in.

[calcifer]

2 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

It's like us to go and pick up a couple of results in those games. 

Keep the faith. 

Not the way we are playing, Smith can be stubborn sometimes I do think he will keep persevering with this diabolical formation. 

[sheepyvillian]

1 minute ago, calcifer said:

Not the way we are playing, Smith can be stubborn sometimes I do think he will keep persevering with this diabolical formation. 

We used it against United to good effect. Every man and his dog was applauding then.

Theresa some truth to what he said after the Arsenal game. I think that capitulation against Wolves had a bigger psychological effect on the players than we expected. 

Not one player looked comfortable with the ball against Arsenal. To me, that's a confidence issue. 

[DCJonah]

Just now, foreveryoung said:

Maybe your right, but these players would be signed on the ambition of the club. Finishing 14th this season is not really for filling that ambition. 12th I guess would be acceptable, higher is really where we need to be, after spending 100m just to replace Grealish.

I agree. We really do. But I don't believe we lose out on many players if we finish 14th.

It's certainly not the disaster that would be worth sacking Smith mid season to try and prevent.

[thabucks]

We cannot afford to stand still this season, especially with Newcastle’s new found riches and Smith cannot learn on the job much longer. He either produces the goods now or he is gone. No place for any sentimentality if this lack of form and team cohesion continues. 

[Peter Griffin]

16 minutes ago, thabucks said:

We cannot afford to stand still this season, especially with Newcastle’s new found riches and Smith cannot learn on the job much longer. He either produces the goods now or he is gone. No place for any sentimentality if this lack of form and team cohesion continues. 

I agree with that, he must deliver this season. I hope he does deliver but if he doesn't then I expect him to be replaced next summer

[DCJonah]

4 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

I dunno, Finishing 14th will be disaster after the progress we have been making. I wouldn't be happy keeping the manager, when arguably we have better team than when we finished 11th.

Digression will certain not be in the owners plans, we all know that. Yes we lost Grealish, but that's why they spent 100m on 3 players to replace him.

Disaster is a strong word and maybe in relation to pre season hopes. Still not sure I'd agree. But in regards the future of the club.  No where near. 

[nick76]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

This season so far, its been anything but 2 steps forward one step back,its been  forward, back,forward,forward, back, back, back.

My point about that was over a longer period and not a game or a few games…Smith goes through spells of poor form but then improves better than before the bad spell.

As for the rest of your post mate your just pointing out some traits of a midtable team which we are.  When teams win, weaknesses get overlooked, when we lose, strengths get overlooked.  We have many strengths and we have many weaknesses, that’s life as a midtable team.  Post Man U and Everton it was all great, post three loses those weaknesses are the end of world.  Life as a midtable team fan.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

14 hours ago, Zhan_Zhuang said:

But we still hear things, it's not completely tight...

Smith was practically gone before lockdown and we were hearing it weeks before, we seem to be in a similar situation yet again.

Look, I really hope he turns it around quickly but I'm starting to think it is the beginning of the end for him.

Where were you hearing that, football insider? I remember nothing of the sort. There were some commentators who thought he was in trouble, which isn’t that surprising given results, but nothing like what you’ve suggested.

There’s zero chance they sack Smith this side of Christmas unless things take a very dark turn. Which they won’t, he will turn it around again… until the next time. 

[OutByEaster?]

20 minutes ago, TRO said:

This season so far, its been anything but 2 steps forward one step back,its been  forward, back,forward,forward, back, back, back.....extrapolate that out over a season and its a relegation, scrap.

I understand that these are our darkest days and that doom lurks around every corner, but....just a reminder that we're nearer to European qualification than we are to relegation as things stand.

And no, I don't think we're going to qualify for Europe this season, but I don't think we're in a relegation scrap either - we're a mid table side doing mid table things with a panicky fanbase.

 

[M_Afro]

5 minutes ago, nick76 said:

My point about that was over a longer period and not a game or a few games…Smith goes through spells of poor form but then improves better than before the bad spell.

As for the rest of your post mate your just pointing out some traits of a midtable team which we are.  When teams win, weaknesses get overlooked, when we lose, strengths get overlooked.  We have many strengths and we have many weaknesses, that’s life as a midtable team.  Post Man U and Everton it was all great, post three loses those weaknesses are the end of world.  Life as a midtable team fan.

Are we a mid table side though? The stated aim of the club at the start of the season was to challenge for Europe. Smith said on Friday that we have a top half squad. There is a subtle difference between saying we are a top half side and a mid table side but it is important nonetheless. Top half suggests that we are at least in the hunt for a European slot. Mid table suggests we are neither in the hunt for Europe or in danger of relegation.

I know you really want Smith to stay and I do empathise with you. Smith has much to like. He brings things to the table that are unique to him because of his history with the club. I also have to admit that I never wanted him in the first place. There have definitely been stages where he has really started to win me over but then we revert to the same things that ultimately hold us back. In my view however, our form has largely been poor all year. This is backed up by our points accumulated during that period. 

[DCJonah]

2 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I understand that these are our darkest days and that doom lurks around every corner, but....just a reminder that we're nearer to European qualification than we are to relegation as things stand.

And no, I don't think we're going to qualify for Europe this season, but I don't think we're in a relegation scrap either - we're a mid table side doing mid table things with a panicky fanbase.

 

Such a good point. 

And I'm extremely confident that will still be the case at the end of the season.

[nick76]

3 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I understand that these are our darkest days and that doom lurks around every corner, but....just a reminder that we're nearer to European qualification than we are to relegation as things stand.

And no, I don't think we're going to qualify for Europe this season, but I don't think we're in a relegation scrap either - we're a mid table side doing mid table things with a panicky fanbase.

 

Exactly, the last dozen or so words especially.

[Peter Griffin]

11 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

just a reminder that we're nearer to European qualification than we are to relegation as things stand.

We are but there are only 9 games played and things are bunched up and it is difficult to build up big gaps during the earlier stages of the season. There is 'only' 10 points between European qualification and relegation as it stands. The issue is the trend Villa is showing and a return of 1.1 points per game will push us towards relegation and away from Europe. That is why I and others are a little concerned that Deano is not showing signs of turning things around

[M_Afro]

I honestly think the next 2 games are massive. This next International break is always a precarious one for managers who are struggling. Fail to win either match and Dean could be gone. Lose both and he will be gone.

[nick76]

51 minutes ago, M_Afro said:

Are we a mid table side though? The stated aim of the club at the start of the season was to challenge for Europe. Smith said on Friday that we have a top half squad. There is a subtle difference between saying we are a top half side and a mid table side but it is important nonetheless. Top half suggests that we are at least in the hunt for a European slot. Mid table suggests we are neither in the hunt for Europe or in danger of relegation.

I know you really want Smith to stay and I do empathise with you. Smith has much to like. He brings things to the table that are unique to him because of his history with the club. I also have to admit that I never wanted him in the first place. There have definitely been stages where he has really started to win me over but then we revert to the same things that ultimately hold us back. In my view however, our form has largely been poor all year. This is backed up by our points accumulated during that period. 

Yes we are a midtable team.

Your aim should always be high so yes aim was europe with a midtable team.  We obviously not going to say we are aiming for midtable.  Even on here most thought we’d end up between 9th-12th.

I’m not sure I agree that top half suggests the hunt for Europe, it can but not necessarily.  
As for

Quote

Mid table suggests we are neither in the hunt for Europe or in danger of relegation.

I agree…as the season starts you continue to aim for Europe but as games reduce the less likely it happens.

I do like Smith, I wasn’t bothered about him when he joined so I was neither positive or negative on him.  I am not actually not bothered whether he’s a Villa fan or not but it’s a nice bonus.  My view is on him as a manager.  He has many strengths and many flaws…I dislike the inconsistency but as I’ve said many times to boredom, I think he takes two steps forward, then one back, then two forward.  We are currently in the “one back” and some Villa fans can’t deal with that but given that following his history we’ll likely take two steps forward I’m on the Smith train.  People don’t agree with me on two steps forward but that’s my position until I don’t think Smith can do it or he does it.

I understand why people are concerned, I understand why a few want him replaced, I understand why some don’t want him replaced but are concerned.  I get all that.  I’m concerned obviously with our current form but I look at the bigger picture, or what I see as the bigger picture and I think we will be fine under Smith and we will continue to progress, we just need to get out of this bad spell.

Edited October 24, 2021 by nick76

[Peter Griffin]

2 minutes ago, M_Afro said:

I honestly think the next 2 games are massive. This next International break is always a precarious one for managers who are struggling. Fail to win either match and Dean could be gone. Lose both and he will be gone.

I don't think he 'will' be gone if we lose the next two but I wouldn't rule it out. I think he will be given the next 3 games with losses allowed and then he will be on match by match review. But it won't and shouldn't be just down to the result. If he implements a style of football, if we are playing like our life depended on it and if he plays the right tactics then I can forgive losses to better teams or through a bit of luck for the opposition. But saying that, even that tolerance would have a very limited timeline

[nick76]

5 minutes ago, M_Afro said:

I honestly think the next 2 games are massive. This next International break is always a precarious one for managers who are struggling. Fail to win either match and Dean could be gone. Lose both and he will be gone.

I just don’t think this would be the case

[TRO]

30 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I understand that these are our darkest days and that doom lurks around every corner, but....just a reminder that we're nearer to European qualification than we are to relegation as things stand.

And no, I don't think we're going to qualify for Europe this season, but I don't think we're in a relegation scrap either - we're a mid table side doing mid table things with a panicky fanbase.

 

doom lurks where Defeats, are the regular visitor.

points wise, maybe....but not the way we are playing in the majority of our games we're not.

If you watch the game with analytical eyes and rest the emotion for a while.....you can see why, we are struggling and its not world beating play,that we are missing..... its basic stuff amiss....fundamental criteria from a competing team has us floundering, to find.

you've got it the wrong way around, (its a panicky team, the fanbase just respond to that) like Dean has in talking about performances first.....its wins first and, performances second....winning ugly is perfectly acceptable as a stop gap for me, you can tidy it up later.

Moyes was being interviewed on sky this morning and asked , what he wants first.....Wins, without hesitation, was his response....and you play to win.

Wins give you time to perfect the spectacle of your play.

 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2021 by TRO