Jesus Garcia Pitarch

[Sulberto21]

1 minute ago, hippo said:

Well done ..you found 2 worse deals than wesley.....that obviously  cut no ice with the villa board.

Ok.

[tomav84]

7 minutes ago, thunderball said:

Citing Wesley is a cheap shot. The same voices were condemning Luiz as a failure in March. David Platt was a slow burn.

the turnaround of luiz is astounding. it's something i've never witnessed. there are slow burns, and there's luiz. i didn't want to see him in a villa shirt again, now i'm desperate for him to stay. my point being that such turnarounds are so incredibly rare, that it's highly unlikely that wesley would've had the same level of improvement

[Sulberto21]

4 minutes ago, hippo said:

For the  majority of clubs in the prem 22m is big money for a striker. And most clubs would be expecting more than wesley delivered for 22m. He had absolutely  no previous of scoring goals , the fee was massively  ott , so ott that there were suggestions  we had to inflate the fee to get a work permit.

Samatta got a work permit with a 8.5m fee. No inflation needed.

[Mantis]

Newcastle paid something like £40m for Joelinton. We perhaps overpaid slightly for Wesley but tbh, £20m is nothing for a striker these days.

[Vive_La_Villa]

3 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

the turnaround of luiz is astounding. it's something i've never witnessed. there are slow burns, and there's luiz. i didn't want to see him in a villa shirt again, now i'm desperate for him to stay. my point being that such turnarounds are so incredibly rare, that it's highly unlikely that wesley would've had the same level of improvement

He looked pretty impressive against Burnley so vast improvement in the second part of the season is not out of the question.

You could see that Luiz had bags of potential though. It didn’t show so much for Wesley.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Vive_La_Villa

[Sulberto21]

1 minute ago, tomav84 said:

the turnaround of luiz is astounding. it's something i've never witnessed. there are slow burns, and there's luiz. i didn't want to see him in a villa shirt again, now i'm desperate for him to stay. my point being that such turnarounds are so incredibly rare, that it's highly unlikely that wesley would've had the same level of improvement

Both Wesley and Luiz showed skill. Brazilian flair but were inconsistent which isn't a strange concept as foreign players take longer to settle. 

[hippo]

Just now, Sulberto21 said:

Samatta got a work permit with a 8.5m fee. No inflation needed.

All I was saying that it was suggested the fee for Wesley was so high as it enabled us to get a work permit.

Samata from memory would have no such problems as I believe he has CL appearances....?

 

[tomav84]

1 minute ago, Sulberto21 said:

Samatta got a work permit with a 8.5m fee. No inflation needed.

samatta had to go through an appeal process i seem to recall. there were other clubs sniffing around wesley so i suspect the fee was inflated to wrap the signing up quickly to avoid WP delays and risk losing out on the player.

Luiz and trez were anothers that look longer to get over the line. wesley's transfer was signed sealed and delivered in a couple of days

[Sulberto21]

2 minutes ago, Mantis said:

Newcastle paid something like £40m for Joelinton. We perhaps overpaid slightly for Wesley but tbh, £20m is nothing for a striker these days.

That's the point TrentVilla was making which has been lost in translation lol.

[momo]

I don't know what people on here know about internal affairs that are not public. But he got in Luiz from the league he knows best, the Spanish league. The defenders are excellent and work as a unit now, but there were shortcomings up field. The financial situation meant that Villa had to do the same as under Tim Sherwood, and Fulham last year.

[hippo]

Just now, tomav84 said:

samatta had to go through an appeal process i seem to recall. there were other clubs sniffing around wesley so i suspect the fee was inflated to wrap the signing up quickly to avoid WP delays and risk losing out on the player.

Luiz and trez were anothers that look longer to get over the line. wesley's transfer was signed sealed and delivered in a couple of days

Yeah Newcastle thought they had him signed...and then go jolinton instead !

[ozvillafan]

I'm still dumbfounded that people are slating Wesley. He uprooted himself into a new culture playing high pressure, physical football that he wasn't used to and left alone up front with little service from our wide men even though he's used to playing in a front 2. He had games where he struggled - but he also had a few gems.

How is it, then, that with more time in the league and more time to adjust to the culture people are certain he couldn't improve? There was certainly enough there for me not to write him off completely - but it seems instant gratification is the only way nowadays.

[tomav84]

2 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

He looked pretty impressive against Burnley so vast improvement in the second part of the season is not out of the question.

You could see that Luiz had bags of potential though. It didn’t show so much for Wesley.

for that reason i am willing to give wesley a 2nd chance, but in spite of an improved performance vs burnley i still think we could've gotten better than 22m

[hippo]

2 minutes ago, ozvillafan said:

I'm still dumbfounded that people are slating Wesley. He uprooted himself into a new culture playing high pressure, physical football that he wasn't used to and left alone up front with little service from our wide men even though he's used to playing in a front 2. He had games where he struggled - but he also had a few gems.

How is it, then, that with more time in the league and more time to adjust to the culture people are certain he couldn't improve? There was certainly enough there for me not to write him off completely - but it seems instant gratification is the only way nowadays.

How would you feel if we didn't sign another striker before next season starts ?

[hippo]

3 minutes ago, ozvillafan said:

I'm still dumbfounded that people are slating Wesley. He uprooted himself into a new culture playing high pressure, physical football that he wasn't used to and left alone up front with little service from our wide men even though he's used to playing in a front 2. He had games where he struggled - but he also had a few gems.

How is it, then, that with more time in the league and more time to adjust to the culture people are certain he couldn't improve? There was certainly enough there for me not to write him off completely - but it seems instant gratification is the only way nowadays.

He probably will improve....but probably not enough to cut it at this level.

[nepal_villan]

Seeing how many of our players from a  few years back turned out (Ayew, Amavi, Traore, Gueye), I am hesitant to write-off players too quickly.   I hope this change is well thought-out and we have a better replacement lined-up and this is not just a case of finger-pointing.

[Sulberto21]

Wesley is a false 9 type striker. Therefore he needs to have fast wingers to be devastatingly effective. He definitely showed in flashes brilliance. He also showed poor control but it came all together in his final game. Kid deserves a chance. 22m is a pittance these days. It's like £8/9m from 2014/15.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Sulberto21

[KenjiOgiwara]

10 minutes ago, ozvillafan said:

I'm still dumbfounded that people are slating Wesley.

You wouldn't be if you watched him play 

[Zatman]

23 minutes ago, hippo said:

For the  majority of clubs in the prem 22m is big money for a striker. And most clubs would be expecting more than wesley delivered for 22m. He had absolutely  no previous of scoring goals , the fee was massively  ott , so ott that there were suggestions  we had to inflate the fee to get a work permit.

15 Premier League teams have a record transfer fee higher than what we paid for Wesley 

Only Brighton, Burnley, Norwich and Sheffield United have a lower record transfer fee

[thunderball]

20 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

the turnaround of luiz is astounding. it's something i've never witnessed. there are slow burns, and there's luiz. i didn't want to see him in a villa shirt again, now i'm desperate for him to stay. my point being that such turnarounds are so incredibly rare, that it's highly unlikely that wesley would've had the same level of improvement

Who knows? 

The point is we are all armchair experts and the real world is much more complex. You cant include Wesley in any judgement of Suso because he barely had chance to establish himself in a new team, a new country, a new division. Were the young Salah and De Bruyne terrible players when disposed of by Chelsea? What about the class of Summer 2015? Patience.