John McGinn

[Tom13]

1 hour ago, bobzy said:

Fine - but we are currently a more “possession based” team than we were last season and we carry less threat. Do you think we’ve improved?

That's because we don't have possession in the right areas. McGinn is a big issue regarding this - as soon as things get tight, he struggles. He doesn't even show for the ball half the time, and he's a centre mid.

[ozvillafan]

We have no left winger, really.

Seems ideal to have McGinn in that position, vying with Ramsey for that spot.

That leaves a hole in our midfield which is easily filled by Kamara (when/if fit), Luiz, Dendonker, Nakamba and - dare I say it - Sanson.

[LondonLax]

I saw a stat on the BBC that he has 20 goal involvements in his 35 games for Scotland under Clarke (14 goals and 6 assists). He got 0 goals and 0 assists under McLeish, Strachan or Mackay in the matches before Clarke arrived (and we are seeing similar form here under Gerrard). 

He's obviously very effective in the roll he is currently playing for Scotland but very poor in the roll he is being asked to do for us.  

Edited September 22, 2022 by LondonLax

[mykeyb]

52 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

I saw a stat on the BBC that he has 20 goal involvements in his 35 games for Scotland under Clarke (14 goals and 6 assists). He got 0 goals and 0 assists under McLeish, Strachan or Mackay in the matches before Clarke arrived (and we are seeing similar form here under Gerrard). 

He's obviously very effective in the roll he is currently playing for Scotland but very poor in the roll he is being asked to do for us.  

And thats our fault if we arent using him effectively

[Sulberto21]

9 hours ago, bobzy said:

I’ve had this discussion a few times - why are we singling out passing and possession? At some weird point, we all of a sudden became obsessed about possession. Our possession this season is probably better than last, and we look worse.

What McGinn did last season - better than anyone other than Buendia - was create chances. Give me creating chances over being able to successfully complete 5 yard passes any day of the week.

 

 

(he was also very effective at breaking down play higher up the pitch and winning free kicks higher up the pitch. He did all of this pretty well.)

There are better creators on the pitch. His job for Villa is get the ball to one of these creators.

If he keeps giving the ball away this results in a turnover that renders him useless because unless he makes the initial tackle he never gets back quick enough. 

He was sensational in the wolves game last season because he was selective in his passing and he ripped em a new proverbial because of. 

That’s the issue most people have with him he doesn’t mix his game up enough. Instead most of the time it’s an aimless punt up the field. And we’re back to square one.

And don’t get me started on him when he gets pressured . He’s effective in international football because the standard is lower and he has more time.

[Risso]

His international goals have come against the following teams: Russia, San Marino (3), Cyprus, Kazakhstan (2), Austria, Faroes (2), Israel, Austria, Armenia and Ukraine. Half of those aren't even League 2 standard.

[Sulberto21]

3 minutes ago, Risso said:

His international goals have come against the following teams: Russia, San Marino (3), Cyprus, Kazakhstan (2), Austria, Faroes (2), Israel, Austria, Armenia and Ukraine. Half of those aren't even League 2 standard.

Exactly. I cringe at the “he’s amazing for Scotland” comments. 

edit - imo his best role for Villa would be the last 30 minutes go full meatball. Doing a griezemann! 

Edited September 22, 2022 by Sulberto21

[Tom13]

38 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

And thats our fault if we arent using him effectively

There's no way he should be starting more advanced for us as we have several better options in that area. Just look at who his Scotland goals have come against...says it all.

[Tom13]

21 minutes ago, Sulberto21 said:

There are better creators on the pitch. His job for Villa is get the ball to one of these creators.

If he keeps giving the ball away this results in a turnover that renders him useless because unless he makes the initial tackle he never gets back quick enough. 

He was sensational in the wolves game last season because he was selective in his passing and he ripped em a new proverbial because of. 

That’s the issue most people have with him he doesn’t mix his game up enough. Instead most of the time it’s an aimless punt up the field. And we’re back to square one.

And don’t get me started on him when he gets pressured . He’s effective in international football because the standard is lower and he has more time.

Not just that, but he needs to support and continue to build play with the creators once they have it, giving them an option, but he's not good at this. It'll come to him, and he'll panic and look for the ball over the top. No one touch passing from him or anything like that to build a fluid move.

[His Name Is Death]

12 hours ago, Stoobs said:

For Scotland, he has a free role playing just off the striker. Appears to revel in this. Has a freedom and not afraid to try things. The chances he creates for us is unreal. 

It's pretty obvious this is where he thrives (in a more advanced role). I can't fathom why our managers have used him only rarely in this position.

Edited September 22, 2022 by His Name Is Death

[Risso]

He's been with us for 4 years now, and his best goal return in the league is 6, in the Championship. Since then, 3 a season is what he does, and I doubt he'll even manage that this season.

[duke313]

26 minutes ago, Risso said:

His international goals have come against the following teams: Russia, San Marino (3), Cyprus, Kazakhstan (2), Austria, Faroes (2), Israel, Austria, Armenia and Ukraine. Half of those aren't even League 2 standard.

Yet Harry Kane is lauded as England's greatest ever goal scorer when he scores 4 against San Marino 

[Risso]

Just now, His Name Is Death said:

It's pretty obvious this is where he thrives. I can't fathom why our managers don't utilise him more in this position.

Because we've got much, much better players in that position, and we play against Premier League teams, not bus drivers from San Marino. Would anybody be interested in buying Harry Maguire from Man U because of his England performances? No, because 95% of international football matches are against piss poor teams, and don't get difficult until you meet somebody in the latter stages of finals. Perhaps we should put in an offer for Lyndon Dykes, as he scored two last night for Scotland. You'd have to bear in mind that he's got one goal in the Championship for QPR this season, and got 9 last season. Is he "not being used in the correct position" for his club side either?

[Risso]

6 minutes ago, duke313 said:

Yet Harry Kane is lauded as England's greatest ever goal scorer when he scores 4 against San Marino 

Harry Kane has been a consistent scorer against the best teams in the country at domestic level, and also the best teams at the world at international level. Any comparisons to McGinn are laughable.

[Stoobs]

It’s a conundrum indeed. Bruce, Smith, Gerrard, Clarke, his last 4 managers, clearly love him and it’s not for dressing like a chicken or organising quiz nights and yet the football experts on this forum think he is a dud. He has been the voted Scotland International Player of the Year for the last 3 years in a row. Again, forum members saying Scotland are crap and who is his competition. Robertson, Tierney, McTominay, McGregor all play regularly for clubs operating at a much higher level than Villa and we have other players operating on similar level and McGinn has been the top performer. 
I am not blind. He has been very poor for Villa for a while but it’s clear where his best position is now. I wouldn’t be starting him in his current role. Unless SG has bravery to play him in role where he plays for Scotland I can’t see him offering Villa much and it would seem, going by the posts, there are 5 or 6 players better than him in this more forward position. Hopefully he gets a move but, going back to my initial point, SG seems to like him so unlikely he will be moved on. 

[duke313]

24 minutes ago, Risso said:

Harry Kane has been a consistent scorer against the best teams in the country at domestic level, and also the best teams at the world at international level. Any comparisons to McGinn are laughable.

Kane scored 12 international goals for England last season, 5 of which were penalties.  If McGinn can be critized for scoring against shit international teams, so can Sir Harry Kane.

Edited September 22, 2022 by duke313

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

Man turns into Maradonna for Scotland.

Bizarre.

I really think he should be competing on left with JJ etc in an advanced spot. Or further up in any case.

[Tom13]

36 minutes ago, His Name Is Death said:

It's pretty obvious this is where he thrives (in a more advanced role). I can't fathom why our managers have used him only rarely in this position.

Because Buendia, Coutinho, Ramsey, Traore and probably Bailey are all better AMs than him.

[MakemineVanilla]

Captain 'meatball' was magnificent last night and put in some great crosses before he scored.

 

 

[Risso]

18 minutes ago, duke313 said:

Kane scored 12 international goals for England last season, 5 of which were penalties.  If McGinn can be critized for scoring against shit international teams, so can Sir Harry Kane.

You're missing the point spectacularly. Kane is a brilliant player for both Spurs and England, and scores goals whoever he is up against. Of course he fills his boots against the weaker teams, but you don't need to make excuses for his form at club level by pointing to his international record, because he's consistently great for both club and country. People are making excuses for McGinn by saying that his record for Scotlnad shows he's somehow being misused in the Premier League. The reality is he's had 4 years as a midfielder for Villa, but gets to score more playing for Scotland because just about all of the teams he's scored against have been absolute minnows.