John McGinn

[Stoobs]

2 minutes ago, IrishVilla10 said:

You must be on the wind up. You’re taking Craig Gordon over Emi? Armstrong and che Adam’s  got hooked against us last week don’t remember seeing them do anything 

Craig Gordon won the Scottish Sports Writer’s Player of Year this year. Has been absolutely outstanding. Emi brilliant keeper too but I wouldn’t swap Gordon. 

[bobzy]

23 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Just looks a different player for Scotland than Villa, it’s not even comparable.  Not just position but in his levels.

After the interview he gave following the Southampton win, I do wonder how much he’s feeling the pressure.

I’m a massive fan of McGinn - probably more the man than the player - but he does appear to be trying too much; maybe particularly as captain. 

[IrishVilla10]

If Buendia can’t get game time amongst our forwards I absolutely don’t want Mcginn amongst them, regardless of what he does for Scotland 

[duke313]

1 hour ago, Stoobs said:

For Scotland, he has a free role playing just off the striker. Appears to revel in this. Has a freedom and not afraid to try things. The chances he creates for us is unreal. 

He’d be much more effective as a 10 than an 8 for us.

[Stoobs]

Still think he will be a Villa legend. Without doubt my favourite player of last 10 years. I know this forum hates him but he will come good. 

[bobzy]

35 minutes ago, IrishVilla10 said:

If Buendia can’t get game time amongst our forwards I absolutely don’t want Mcginn amongst them, regardless of what he does for Scotland 

100%.

For me, and I know a lot of people feel differently(!), McGinn last season was absolutely fine. The more forward-thinking, risk-taking central midfielder. Bringing in Kamara was the solution - a dedicated DCM who could operate that role more effectively than Luiz, and then we could bring Luiz further into the middle of the park or use Ramsey there. We had those options.

McGinn now seems to have curtailed the good risk stuff and is too aggressive in the things he naturally did well anyway. Somehow, we need to free his shackles and accept that he’ll give the ball away whilst trying something risky… but allow him to keep doing it. Because that’s where we actually have an advantage on the pitch. 

[bobzy]

2 minutes ago, Stoobs said:

Still think he will be a Villa legend. Without doubt my favourite player of last 10 years. I know this forum hates him but he will come good. 

He’s become a scapegoat, but not everyone hates him at all. He’d still be on the teamsheet, for me. 

[Zatman]

8 minutes ago, Stoobs said:

Still think he will be a Villa legend. Without doubt my favourite player of last 10 years. I know this forum hates him but he will come good. 

nobody hates him, we just dont rate him and feel he is out of his depth its a huge difference

He has been a good servant for the club but time to move on, he hasnt improved in the top flight

[Stoobs]

18 minutes ago, Zatman said:

nobody hates him, we just dont rate him and feel he is out of his depth its a huge difference

He has been a good servant for the club but time to move on, he hasnt improved in the top flight

I really don’t think he is out of his depth. Villa are a bottom half Premiership team. McGinn more than holds his own in international football. He is one of Scotland’s best players playing in a team that has superb record in last 2 years. I fully admit, McGinn has been very poor over last 12 months for Villa and I have no idea why he hasn’t been dropped, rested or whatever. I am not that blinkered to admit that but SJM is a player. Every player evolves and changes. He was always a box to box player for me but clearly, his game has changed. He is absolutely brilliant at supporting front man for Scotland. Rolls defenders, picks passes in or around box and gets shots away. I know Villa fans have love affair with Buendia, I rate him too but really feel McGinn would be more effective than Couthino at the moment. It’s a difficult one because Scotland play slightly different system to Villa. Watkins or Ings seems isolated to me when SG plays one up front. McGinn, when playing for Scotland, doesn’t play as out and out striker but gets beyond the front man often throughout the game and is so effective. Rarely see Couthino or Buendia get ahead of Watkins or Ings. Sometimes systems suit players and McGinn looks a 60 million player for Scotland and a 60 pound player for Villa at the moment. I actually think a move from Villa Park would suit all parties concerned. Different manager would play him in Scotland position, Villa fans would be over the moon to get shot of him and my team would get a percentage of Hibs sell on fee. Everyone is a winner. 

[Sulberto21]

2 hours ago, nick76 said:

Just looks a different player for Scotland than Villa, it’s not even comparable.  Not just position but in his levels.

Maybe it’s something to do with the 3rd class opposition. Ukraine probably have players occupied with something else going on in their country too. He excels against weaker international teams. 

Edited September 21, 2022 by Sulberto21

[Stoobs]

1 minute ago, Sulberto21 said:

Maybe it’s something to do with the 3rd class opposition. Ukraine probably have players occupied with something else going on in their country too.

7 players playing tonight beat RB Leipzig in Champions League 1-4 in Germany 2 weeks ago. They seemed focused enough that night.

[IrishVilla10]

50 minutes ago, bobzy said:

He’s become a scapegoat, but not everyone hates him at all. He’d still be on the teamsheet, for me. 

When you can call out a players shit performances and then back it up with stats surely the criticism is justified. You’re not allowed to criticise anyone now without the scapegoat label. 

[bobzy]

6 minutes ago, IrishVilla10 said:

When you can call out a players shit performances and then back it up with stats surely the criticism is justified. You’re not allowed to criticise anyone now without the scapegoat label. 

I disagree - there are some players where fan opinion just won’t shift. McGinn is one of those players. 

[IrishVilla10]

2 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I disagree - there are some players where fan opinion just won’t shift. McGinn is one of those players. 

Mcginn was a huge fan favourite when we got promoted though. He’s not been good enough for a while for me, regardless of if you disagree with how we’re using him, and his stats reflect it. Look up his passing  and possession stats on fbref, they back up the eye test. 

[AJ]

I like McGinn, but he isn't having the best of seasons.

We should all know what he is capable of, and he should be playing better. 

I think the captaincy thing has backfired big time for him. Time to give it back to Ty.

[Tom13]

2 hours ago, Steero113 said:

 he's just played 30 yards too far back. that's the long and the short of it. 

But Buendia, Coutinho, Traore, Ramsey and probably Bailey would all be better in the AM role than him.

[bobzy]

8 minutes ago, IrishVilla10 said:

Mcginn was a huge fan favourite when we got promoted though. He’s not been good enough for a while for me, regardless of if you disagree with how we’re using him, and his stats reflect it. Look up his passing  and possession stats on fbref, they back up the eye test. 

I’ve had this discussion a few times - why are we singling out passing and possession? At some weird point, we all of a sudden became obsessed about possession. Our possession this season is probably better than last, and we look worse.

What McGinn did last season - better than anyone other than Buendia - was create chances. Give me creating chances over being able to successfully complete 5 yard passes any day of the week.

 

 

(he was also very effective at breaking down play higher up the pitch and winning free kicks higher up the pitch. He did all of this pretty well.)

[Tom13]

Just now, bobzy said:

Give me creating chances over being able to successfully complete 5 yard passes any day of the week.

No offence, but that's a really simplistic view. If you're a central midfielder in what Gerrard apparently wants to become a possession based team, you need to play intelligently. You try and create chances when the right opportunity arrives.

So McGinn being extremely limited on the ball limits us hugely as a team, as we cannot control games. Just because his odd lofted ball (which he usually tries because he has no idea what else to do, and he panics in tight spaces) leads to a chance, it doesn't mean he's more of a help than a hindrance.

[bobzy]

4 minutes ago, Tom13 said:

No offence, but that's a really simplistic view. If you're a central midfielder in what Gerrard apparently wants to become a possession based team, you need to play intelligently. You try and create chances when the right opportunity arrives.

So McGinn being extremely limited on the ball limits us hugely as a team, as we cannot control games. Just because his odd lofted ball (which he usually tries because he has no idea what else to do, and he panics in tight spaces) leads to a chance, it doesn't mean he's more of a help than a hindrance.

Fine - but we are currently a more “possession based” team than we were last season and we carry less threat. Do you think we’ve improved?

[Villaphan04]

2 hours ago, Stoobs said:

Still think he will be a Villa legend. Without doubt my favourite player of last 10 years. I know this forum hates him but he will come good. 

I'm only speaking for myself, but I don't hate McGinn (+ i don't think this forum does either). What I do hate is that he has been an undroppable midfield player in a team that has struggled in midfield since returning to the Premier League and has now found himself captain when he should be the next one to be replaced / made into a squad player for Villa. Do I want him gone? No, because he has a role to play with us. The issue is playing him where he does with Scotland will find him directly in competition with

1) our club record signing Buendia 

2) Philippe Coutinho, who happens to also be our manager's mate

3) A young Villa academy product who has become somewhat of the club's golden boy in Jacob Ramsey

4). Leon Bailey who cost upwards of 30m as well

 

you're also being extremely generous with the term legend, there's no way that McGinn at this moment in time can be considered anywhere close to being a Villa Legend (& there are other players in the squad that probably would reach that status with us first, Mings, Martinez)