bobzy Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Tom13 said: Goals for Scotland (14): San Marino (3) Austria (2) Faroe Islands (2) Kazakhstan (2) Armenia (1) Cyprus (1) Israel (1) Russia (1) Ukraine (1) Assists for Scotland (7): Armenia (2) Cyprus (2) Albania (1) Moldova (1) Poland (1) Could be why he's so 'great' for Scotland. This kind of stuff is utterly pointless because Scotland don't tend to qualify for major tournaments and, therefore, largely play against teams in qualification stages. If you look at the goalscoring records of literally any player for any European nation they will have overwhelmingly scored against poor International side (Cristiano Ronaldo has scored more goals against Luxembourg than any other side). He does well for Scotland because he plays well for Scotland. The nature of the opposition is largely **** irrelevant. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 4 minutes ago, bobzy said: This kind of stuff is utterly pointless because Scotland don't tend to qualify for major tournaments and, therefore, largely play against teams in qualification stages. If you look at the goalscoring records of literally any player for any European nation they will have overwhelmingly scored against poor International side (Cristiano Ronaldo has scored more goals against Luxembourg than any other side). He does well for Scotland because he plays well for Scotland. The nature of the opposition is largely **** irrelevant. How exactly is it irrelevant when people are using McGinn's games for Scotland to praise him? The point is, McGinn struggles against PL opposition, and he looks good against poor opposition. What is **** irrelevant is saying Ronaldo scores against minnows just like McGinn does. Ronaldo does indeed score against minnows, he was also undisputedly world class for God knows how many years. Ronaldo has also scored God knows how many goals against top opposition, including a hat-trick against Spain at a major finals, using that as it's the first example that sprung to mind. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Tom13 said: How exactly is it irrelevant when people are using McGinn's games for Scotland to praise him? The point is, McGinn struggles against PL opposition, and he looks good against poor opposition. What is **** irrelevant is saying Ronaldo scores against minnows just like McGinn does. Ronaldo does indeed score against minnows, he was also undisputedly world class for God knows how many years. Ronaldo has also scored God knows how many goals against top opposition, including a hat-trick against Spain at a major finals, using that as it's the first example that sprung to mind. Because he's playing well for Scotland? It doesn't really matter whether that's against San Marino or Brazil or whoever - if you're playing well, you're playing well. It isn't like Scotland are a great footballing nation who should be romping these sides. According to current FIFA rankings, they're 45th - below Austria, Poland, Ukraine and Russia, and he's been a good player against those sides too. Obviously highlighting that all sorts of players score against poor nations isn't a direct comparison between McGinn and Ronaldo. You'd have to be a **** moron to think I meant that Edited September 23, 2022 by bobzy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, bobzy said: Because he's playing well for Scotland? It doesn't really matter whether that's against San Marino or Brazil or whoever Come on, really? Where does it end, as San Marino are the worst of the worst. If he was doing it against an under 8s team, would you say forget the opposition, he's playing well! The issue is that against better players, he struggles. We've seen it since we came up. He's a very limited footballer and that's a fact. Regarding Ronaldo - completely pointless you bringing him up. Edited September 23, 2022 by Tom13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, Tom13 said: Come on, really? Where does it end, as San Marino are the worst of the worst. If he was doing it against an under 8s team, would you say forget the opposition, he's playing well! The issue is that against better players, he struggles. We've seen it since we came up. He's a very limited footballer and that's a fact. Regarding Ronaldo - completely pointless you bringing him up. You wouldn't against an under 8's team - and I imagine more of the praise for McGinn has been against the better sides that Scotland face, such as recently against Ukraine. Ukraine are a better side than Scotland but Scotland won 3-0 and McGinn stood out. Why on Earth would a Villa fan try and discredit that? It's utterly bizarre. It's like the reverse of what's happened with Cameron Archer. He didn't pull up trees playing for Preston (against poor sides, right?) but he played well enough and had something about him. There are clamours for him to be involved in the first team off the back of it. Now, personally, I'm all in favour of that. But he's done what he's done against poorer opposition. Are you suggesting that it doesn't count? We should forget anything good that he did or any promise he has because he "only" scored against Blackpool, QPR etc? To me, that's nonsense. McGinn is naturally a limited player. He isn't World Class. But, as usual on here, we've got a player who the tide has turned against and those against him will be completely unable to praise anything or it will be coupled with a dig. "Aye, McGinn played quite well today but he's still shit" or whatever. That's seemingly what's happened here. Can we not just appreciate that he's playing well and getting praise for Scotland without the need for the constant slagging off*? (* - it's rhetorical, we all know the answer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 I'm not slagging him off, I'm saying he shouldn't be starting for us as an AM as we have better options. And there's one hell of a gap between McGinn and world class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, Tom13 said: I'm not slagging him off, I'm saying he shouldn't be starting for us as an AM as we have better options. And there's one hell of a gap between McGinn and world class. It's like you can't help yourself . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 Just now, bobzy said: It's like you can't help yourself . That's not slagging him off, it's fact. You said he's not world class, too right he's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 Just now, Tom13 said: That's not slagging him off, it's fact. You said he's not world class, too right he's not. Exactly - so why the need for another dig? "Hell of a gap". It's established. We all know he isn't. It's just another unnecessary dig. As I say, you can't help yourself . 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 As an aside (as I don't watch Scotland games), I just looked at how they set up... it's probably how Villa should be set up, to be honest. I don't necessarily think I'd want to see McGinn starting in a number 10 role, but it would probably be of benefit if he played in a similar position across the board and a 4-2-3-1 of sorts fits with our squad IMO (Bailey, Coutinho, Buendia sat as the 3 behind Watkins/Ings). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 3 minutes ago, bobzy said: As an aside (as I don't watch Scotland games), I just looked at how they set up... it's probably how Villa should be set up, to be honest. I don't necessarily think I'd want to see McGinn starting in a number 10 role, but it would probably be of benefit if he played in a similar position across the board and a 4-2-3-1 of sorts fits with our squad IMO (Bailey, Coutinho, Buendia sat as the 3 behind Watkins/Ings). I'd love to see those three behind the striker, or even Ramsey in place of Coutinho. I think Ramsey is very dangerous in that position with his dribbling ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulberto21 Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 49 minutes ago, bobzy said: Because he's playing well for Scotland? It doesn't really matter whether that's against San Marino or Brazil or whoever - if you're playing well, you're playing well. It isn't like Scotland are a great footballing nation who should be romping these sides. According to current FIFA rankings, they're 45th - below Austria, Poland, Ukraine and Russia, and he's been a good player against those sides too. Obviously highlighting that all sorts of players score against poor nations isn't a direct comparison between McGinn and Ronaldo. You'd have to be a **** moron to think I meant that You drew the comparison though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 We can't really judge his ability to play the way he does for Scotland for Villa. Certainly not based on his PL performances, as he's never played that role for Villa in the PL. Played in a laughable defensive wing back role for Gerrard. Played in a limited defensive midfielder role for Smith. Never really been played further forward for Villa in the Premier league. Whether he could do what he does for Scotland if given that role, is a matter of opinion. Given the fact Buendia and Coutinho both struggle playing there for Villa, I'd be quite confident in saying McGinn would too. Whether he'd offer more than they do at the moment, who knows. I'm not sure using his Scotland form to suggest he could is in any way appropriate. The standard of international football is terrible compared with the PL. Even the teams at the top of the rankings would struggle to compete with in the PL. Of most relevance is the fact he gets way more time on the ball for Scotland than he'd ever get in the PL. Even if they were playing Italy or Spain that would hold true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 14 minutes ago, Sulberto21 said: You drew the comparison though. A comparison between scoring against minnows, yes. Not a direct comparison between one of the greatest players football has ever seen and Cristiano Ronaldo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 Just now, bobzy said: A comparison between scoring against minnows, yes. Not a direct comparison between one of the greatest players football has ever seen and Cristiano Ronaldo. Literally no idea what point you were trying to make then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 32 minutes ago, Tom13 said: Literally no idea what point you were trying to make then. Hold on…. so you read my post and thought that I was directly comparing the abilities of McGinn and Ronaldo?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVTuco Posted September 23, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted September 23, 2022 I'd like to state that I'm happy our captain played well for his country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, bobzy said: Hold on…. so you read my post and thought that I was directly comparing the abilities of McGinn and Ronaldo?!? No, hence why I said no reason why you brought him up. But anyway, your condescending smilies are irritating me now. Edited September 23, 2022 by Tom13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 On 21/09/2022 at 23:55, Tom13 said: But Buendia, Coutinho, Traore, Ramsey and probably Bailey would all be better in the AM role than him. The first two for sure and probably Ramsey too, but I would put him ahead of the other two myself. On 22/09/2022 at 09:19, Risso said: His international goals have come against the following teams: Russia, San Marino (3), Cyprus, Kazakhstan (2), Austria, Faroes (2), Israel, Austria, Armenia and Ukraine. Half of those aren't even League 2 standard. He is playing for Scotland though and three of those teams are rated higher than them. I also think that other than San Marino, most of them would hold their own on a rainy night in Gillingham or Newport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 1 minute ago, John said: The first two for sure and probably Ramsey too, but I would put him ahead of the other two myself. Personally there's no way I'd ever pick McGinn over Traore in an attacking position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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