Vegetarianism/Veganism

[chrisp65]

it's like being in an angry argument with Susie Dent, but with slightly more sexual tension

[snowychap]

13 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I think you're taking it far too seriously than it was intended.

But I'll let him explain it to you.

Not really, we're here to discuss vegetarianism and veganism, aren't we?

Paddywhack made a pejorative point which doesn't make sense in the context in which it was made or the context of an attempted explanation offered later.

15 minutes ago, Paddywhack said:

Now we're just discussing what the word weird means. 

Again, not really. I asked you to explain what you meant by it and your answer was a rather confused one.

One of the problems with all of this (and other things) is that people often see what other people do in a negative light ('weird' for example) simply because it isn't the thing that most people do or it isn't the thing that they themselves do (I appreciate that you yourself are not a vegetarian currently but in the context of your post you taking the position of a non meat-eater commenting on eating meat). Indeed, it was in this context (a discussion of attitudes of veggies v omnivores) that your post was made.

 

[Xann]

Friends of mine, both psychologists by trade, were espousing that their oldest child (13) had remained vegetarian by choice after being brought up that way.

Then Granny pipes up - "Oooh, but she loved that Shepherd's pie".

How we laughed.

[omariqy]

I definitely think generally we eat far too much meat. I don't know if I could ever completely not eat meat but definitely say once a week would be do-able. What would be the best sources of protein on a vegan/vegetarian diet - apart from egg?

[Paddywhack]

7 minutes ago, snowychap said:

Not really, we're here to discuss vegetarianism and veganism, aren't we?

Paddywhack made a pejorative point which doesn't make sense in the context in which it was made or the context of an attempted explanation offered later.

Again, not really. I asked you to explain what you meant by it and your answer was a rather confused one.

One of the problems with all of this (and other things) is that people often see what other people do in a negative light ('weird' for example) simply because it isn't the thing that most people do or it isn't the thing that they themselves do (I appreciate that you yourself are not a vegetarian currently but in the context of your post you taking the position of a non meat-eater commenting on eating meat). Indeed, it was in this context (a discussion of attitudes of veggies v omnivores) that your post was made.

 

Are you a pork belly salesman?

Mate, it was a joke. I said 'chewing a pig's belly was weird'. It was a throw away, light hearted comment. I was joking.

[Davkaus]

1 minute ago, omariqy said:

I definitely think generally we eat far too much meat. I don't know if I could ever completely not eat meat but definitely say once a week would be do-able. What would be the best sources of protein on a vegan/vegetarian diet - apart from egg?

I get most of my protein from stuff like chick peas, lentils, beans. I eat more pistachios and cashews than most people think is reasonable too. Some fake meats are pretty good sources of protein but I generally try to avoid too much processed crap.

It's pretty hard to get insufficient protein without being malnourished in general

 

[snowychap]

6 minutes ago, omariqy said:

I definitely think generally we eat far too much meat. I don't know if I could ever completely not eat meat but definitely say once a week would be do-able. What would be the best sources of protein on a vegan/vegetarian diet - apart from egg?

If it's merely a part-time thing, i.e. a day or two a week then you wouldn't need to worry about it, would you?

Just have a good meal using proper veg.

[snowychap]

1 minute ago, Paddywhack said:

Are you a pork belly salesman?

I do rather enjoy some pork belly, yes.

[Davkaus]

I have to say, if my parents deliberately undermined me and fed my hypothetical kids meat knowing how strongly I objected, I'd cut them off, with no hesitation.

Edited May 29, 2018 by Davkaus

[bickster]

1 hour ago, a m ole said:

most is vegan now anyway, usually wine is the culprit.

thing here is assuming everyone’s principles are the same. it is funny how people like to catch us out, as if having a glass of fish gut champagne undoes all the other good.

No, it isn't

From the Vegetarian Society's Website

Quote

Beer

Real ale undergoes a secondary fermentation while it is being stored in the cask. Cask-conditioned ales need fining to clear the material, such as the yeast suspended within the liquid. This is typically done by adding isinglass, which is derived from the swim bladders of fish, to gather up the yeast and make it sink to the bottom of the cask. Bottled naturally conditioned beers will not always have been treated with isinglass. Keg beers and lagers are pasteurised and usually passed through Chill Filters, as are canned beers and some bottled beers. However, a considerable number of breweries still use isinglass to clear their pasteurised beers.

Cider

Some brands may have been fined using gelatine.

Wine / Fortified Wine

Animal derived ingredients are used in the processing of wines to improve appearance of the finished product. Non animal alternatives do exist in the form of bentonite (impure clay), kieselguhr (sedimentary rock), kaolin (clay mineral) and silica gel. Also, methods such as centrifuging and filtering are becoming more popular. A large number of organic wines do not use animal derived finings but it is always worth seeking clarification if unsure. Fortified wines include Port and Sherry. Port may be fined using gelatine and sherry should be treated in a similar way to wine.

Spirits & Liqueurs

Most spirits appear to be acceptable to vegetarians/vegans as they do not tend to involve the use of animal substances. However, some malt whiskies may have matured in sherry casks which had previously held sherry that has been treated with animal derived finings. Brandy itself is not produced from wine which has undergone any fining processes. There are many liqueurs suitable for a vegetarian/vegan diet.

Colorants

E120 cochineal may be used as a colorant in a small number of red wines and soft drinks.

The VegSoc approved list of beers, for example, lists 134 different beers (mainly bottled) that's a drop in the Ocean and I've not really heard of that many.

The list of wines numbers 45, that's smaller than a drop in the ocean

The list of spirits is... 6

[Stevo985]

18 minutes ago, snowychap said:

Not really, we're here to discuss vegetarianism and veganism, aren't we?

Paddywhack made a pejorative point which doesn't make sense in the context in which it was made or the context of an attempted explanation offered later.

he said something light hearted that you seem to have some weird problem with.

Like I said I'll let you two thrash it out but you're taking it as a far more serious point than it was intended  

[MrDuck]

My kids are vegetarian. They find the idea of eating animals horrifying. They get a decent balanced diet and are in fine health. We've had numerous idiots tell us that this is tantamount to child abuse, and several GPs who said that this is one of the best things we can do for them.

[Davkaus]

10 minutes ago, bickster said:

No, it isn't

From the Vegetarian Society's Website

The VegSoc approved list of beers, for example, lists 134 different beers (mainly bottled) that's a drop in the Ocean and I've not really heard of that many.

The list of wines numbers 45, that's smaller than a drop in the ocean

The list of spirits is... 6

It's not as easy as @a m ole suggests, nor is it as barren as you've posted.

I don't know how the vegetarian society decide which products to include on their site. I've never heard of them before today. they certainly don't list every vegetarian alcoholic drink.

In my experience, wine is a tricky one (though it's increasingly being labelled. Beer is about 50/50 for supermarket stuff, a bit harder for cask ales. Last year I went to the Nottingham beer festival and they listed whether or nor their beers were vegan. It worked out to be about 1 in 4, which isn't where I'd like it to be, but that was still about 300 vegan beers - and that was missing out dozens that I've had previously that they didn't have.

Spirits? The vast majority are accidentally vegan.

The most frustrating thing is that for some reason, alcoholic drinks are exempt from having to label their products with nutrition/allergen info, so you have to do your own research instead of just glancing at a label like you could with any other food/drink.

Edited May 29, 2018 by Davkaus

[snowychap]

9 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Like I said I'll let you two thrash it out ...

You seem to be wanting to get very involved for someone who has said this more than once.

Edit; I've just responded to each post you and he have made in response to what I said which is somewhat the point of a discussion, I'd have thought.

Edited May 29, 2018 by snowychap

[Stevo985]

Just now, snowychap said:

You seem to be wanting to get very involved for someone who has said this more than once.

Whatever you say

[a m ole]

20 minutes ago, bickster said:

No, it isn't

From the Vegetarian Society's Website

The VegSoc approved list of beers, for example, lists 134 different beers (mainly bottled) that's a drop in the Ocean and I've not really heard of that many.

The list of wines numbers 45, that's smaller than a drop in the ocean

The list of spirits is... 6

very contrasting info there... you say the list of approved spirits is 6 but link a page that says:

Quote

Most spirits appear to be acceptable to vegetarians/vegans as they do not tend to involve the use of animal substances. However, some malt whiskies may have matured in sherry casks which had previously held sherry that has been treated with animal derived finings. Brandy itself is not produced from wine which has undergone any fining processes. There are many liqueurs suitable for a vegetarian/vegan diet.

 

[BOF]

1 hour ago, mjmooney said:

Our grandaughter is omnivorous until she's old enough to choose otherwise.

That is the right way because as a species we are omnivorous and always have been.  That's not opinion.  The length of our digestive tract is that of an omnivore.  So at least start the child off the way we have evolved, and then let them take their own path.  Whichever path that turns out to be is OK.

[Stevo985]

7 minutes ago, a m ole said:

very contrasting info there... you say the list of approved spirits is 6 but link a page that says:

 

I think the list Bicks has linked is just products that have been officially approved by VegSoc.

it's not self certification so products can't declare themselves approved. This society specifically does it, like an audit.

 

So a product not being on the list doesn't mean it's not vegetarian/vegan. Just that this particular society hasn't approved it (or disapproved it) yet.

So i don't think it should be treated as anything other than a small and certainly not exhaustive list of vegetarian products.

[Wainy316]

Can you get a muscly vegan?

[mjmooney]

43 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

I have to say, if my parents deliberately undermined me and fed my hypothetical kids meat knowing how strongly I objected, I'd cut them off, with no hesitation.

We don't do that. We have full approval  from her parents. Their line is "This is OUR choice, as adults; she's not old enough to choose, so we're not going to impose it on her". Also, they know full well that we give her a balanced diet of good, home-cooked food - on the odd days when she's with her other grandma, she gets taken to McDonalds.