Davkaus Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, bickster said: So, what shoes are all the vegans wearing? Have you moved on from how it's basically impossible to have a decent drink as a vegan then? For casual stuff, a lot of Vans stuff are vegan. I get my office shoes from here, and they're pretty decent. They don't stack up with my Cheaney's, but they're better than the shite shoes that most people wear. I still have a massive rack full of leather shoes though; no point throwing them away (most of them were bloody expensive), but I won't replace them with leather ones when they're knackered. Edited May 30, 2018 by Davkaus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 I know the ethics behind it but i can't get my head around a 'vegan shoe'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 30, 2018 Moderator Share Posted May 30, 2018 48 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: cool, eat my shoes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, mjmooney said: Are there any goat recipes that don't involve curry? Goat meat is naturally quite tough and lean so it needs a long cooking time like a stew or curry. Interesting though that cows and chickens from 100 years ago look very different to commercial food species of cows and chickens today. They are now much bigger and fatter. I wonder if goat had been more popular in western cooking would goats have gone the same way. Edited May 30, 2018 by LondonLax 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted May 31, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted May 31, 2018 10 hours ago, Davkaus said: I still have a massive rack full of leather shoes though; no point throwing them away (most of them were bloody expensive), but I won't replace them with leather ones when they're knackered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted May 31, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted May 31, 2018 I'm Vegan. I have written before about it on this site. I'm pleasantly surprised by the amount of people who have posted here as either veggie's or vegans. Health, environment and animal cruelty are my reasons. I'm happy to answer questions about any of them. When I originally became vegan the least important reason was was animal cruelty, however these days it would be probably one of the most important reasons. If you are okay with animals being killed for your consumption you should be aware of the hygiene standards and process that grant you sausage rolls, bacon rashers and chicken balti-pies. The food 'standards' which are in place to protect meat eaters are laughable. Below is a video which I put in spoilers as it is fairly graphic. WARNING - CONTAINS VIDEO OF ANIMAL CRUELTY. Spoiler It's by no means the most graphic example out there on the internet, but there are many undercover videos of the industry that produces mass farmed meat for consumption in the West. I am yet to see one that is pleasant. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 31, 2018 Author VT Supporter Share Posted May 31, 2018 34 minutes ago, TheAuthority said: I'm Vegan. I have written before about it on this site. I'm pleasantly surprised by the amount of people who have posted here as either veggie's or vegans. Health, environment and animal cruelty are my reasons. I'm happy to answer questions about any of them. When I originally became vegan the least important reason was was animal cruelty, however these days it would be probably one of the most important reasons. If you are okay with animals being killed for your consumption you should be aware of the hygiene standards and process that grant you sausage rolls, bacon rashers and chicken balti-pies. The food 'standards' which are in place to protect meat eaters are laughable. Below is a video which I put in spoilers as it is fairly graphic. WARNING - CONTAINS VIDEO OF ANIMAL CRUELTY. Hide contents It's by no means the most graphic example out there on the internet, but there are many undercover videos of the industry that produces mass farmed meat for consumption in the West. I am yet to see one that is pleasant. I think i've always hidden behind the thought process of "Well I want my meat to be from animals that are killed humanely so I'm ok". But what's becoming more and more evident to me is it is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to ensure that that is the case. So in my view I'm, intentionally or not, supporting that treatment of animals by buying and eating meat. I'm no longer comfortable with that. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) 49 minutes ago, TheAuthority said: ... there are many undercover videos of the industry that produces mass farmed meat for consumption in the West. I am yet to see one that is pleasant. By whom (and/or for whom) are the 'many undercover videos' taken, produced and edited? Edited May 31, 2018 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC_Hitz Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 24 minutes ago, snowychap said: By whom (and/or for whom) are the 'many undercover videos' taken, produced and edited? Mostly Morrissey concerts. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 3 hours ago, snowychap said: By whom (and/or for whom) are the 'many undercover videos' taken, produced and edited? It's most frequently done by people who have some kind of interest in animal rights, of course. I'm not sure that really discredits it though, they can only film what they see. Obviously the footage that gets out there is the most horrific stuff. How representative that is of general practices is hard to say, but there are enough examples of it that it's hard to write it off as isolated incidents. To be honest, the one that made the most lasting impression on me wasn't even the workers acting 'wrongly', it was business as usual - there's a few videos out there of what happens to chicks in hatcheries. The females get picked out to be used as future egg layers - the males get chucked on to a conveyor belt leading up to a macerator and ground up alive. Pretty **** grim, I could never unsee that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 31, 2018 Author VT Supporter Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Davkaus said: It's most frequently done by people who have some kind of interest in animal rights, of course. I'm not sure that really discredits it though, they can only film what they see. Obviously the footage that gets out there is the most horrific stuff. How representative that is of general practices is hard to say, but there are enough examples of it that it's hard to write it off as isolated incidents. To be honest, the one that made the most lasting impression on me wasn't even the workers acting 'wrongly', it was business as usual - there's a few videos out there of what happens to chicks in hatcheries. The females get picked out to be used as future egg layers - the males get chucked on to a conveyor belt leading up to a macerator and ground up alive. Pretty **** grim, I could never unsee that. Yeah I've seen some stuff on cows being killed the "humane" way and it's still pretty horrifying. And that documentary "Earthlings" had footage from the biggest kosher slaughterhouse in the USA, which I'm guessing despite being kosher is still a pretty major example, and it was **** horrific (and, as it turned out, not kosher) Edited May 31, 2018 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Davkaus said: It's most frequently done by people who have some kind of interest in animal rights, of course. I'm not sure that really discredits it though, they can only film what they see. They can edit out what they don't want people to see. It's not a case of 'discrediting' but of putting the whole thing in to context. Are these videos produced solely to push a specific agenda* (i.e. to get people to stop eating meat), for example? Quote Obviously the footage that gets out there is the most horrific stuff. How representative that is of general practices is hard to say, but there are enough examples of it that it's hard to write it off as isolated incidents. There's a whole ocean between 'written off as isolated incidents' and being 'representative of general practices'. I have no doubt that there are many poor (and worse) practices that go on in farming livestock and the meat production industry. Taking the viewpoint of Mercy For Animals as definitive would be as daft as taking that of the NFU (understanding that the former is a USA charity and the latter the UK farming union). * Edit: And are those pushing a specific agenda open and transparent about that agenda? Edited May 31, 2018 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDuck Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 I work with a couple of guys that used to work in an abbatoir, and the stories I've heard are sickening. Both left as they couldnt handle it any more. Wanton cruelty and abuse is apparently very common in the industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted May 31, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted May 31, 2018 3 hours ago, snowychap said: They can edit out what they don't want people to see. It's not a case of 'discrediting' but of putting the whole thing in to context. Are these videos produced solely to push a specific agenda* (i.e. to get people to stop eating meat), for example? There's a whole ocean between 'written off as isolated incidents' and being 'representative of general practices'. I have no doubt that there are many poor (and worse) practices that go on in farming livestock and the meat production industry. Taking the viewpoint of Mercy For Animals as definitive would be as daft as taking that of the NFU (understanding that the former is a USA charity and the latter the UK farming union). * Edit: And are those pushing a specific agenda open and transparent about that agenda? It is illegal to film inside cattle and hog farms in the USA (look up AgGag laws) - you can go to jail if you are caught doing it. This is because the agriculture corporations have funded and pressured politicians to write laws that stop their practices being exposed. Also if 'vegans' or people with an anti-meat agenda are only releasing footage to show the industry in a bad light, why doesn't the industry release footage of all these beautiful rolling fields that the cattle happily graze upon their whole lives? Just show us the film of the cattle and pigs gently being laid to rest before becoming your food. Like @MrDuck I have friends who have tried to work on hog farms. Most don't make it to the end of the first day. If anyone ever tries to put a hog farm near to where you live you should get it stopped or move - if you value your health. The toxic impact of hog farms on the health of the communities around them is astounding. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted May 31, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted May 31, 2018 4 hours ago, snowychap said: * Edit: And are those pushing a specific agenda open and transparent about that agenda? Sorry for 2 responses but I just saw your edit. I think in general anti-animal cruelty activists are very open about the agenda. It is the agricultural business who lie/bully/intimidate and hide their practices in the name of profit. Profit comes a long way before your health on the list of their priorities - and forget the health/wellbeing of the animals. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 14 minutes ago, TheAuthority said: It is illegal to film inside cattle and hog farms in the USA (look up AgGag laws) - you can go to jail if you are caught doing it. This is because the agriculture corporations have funded and pressured politicians to write laws that stop their practices being exposed. Not sure that's too relevant to what I posted, tbh. It just looks like another example of where the US democratic system has been bought. Quote Also if 'vegans' or people with an anti-meat agenda are only releasing footage to show the industry in a bad light, why doesn't the industry release footage of all these beautiful rolling fields that the cattle happily graze upon their whole lives? Just show us the film of the cattle and pigs gently being laid to rest before becoming your food. I guess you could watch a few episodes of Countryfile. Also, there's plenty of beautiful, rolling fields and hills around these parts that cattle and sheep are grazing on before they become a cutlet or a steak. Again, there's an ocean between the heavily industrialized practices of factory farming and rolling fields that cattle graze upon their whole lives. 20 minutes ago, TheAuthority said: I think in general anti-animal cruelty activists are very open about the agenda. Are the organization responsible for the video that you posted a link to trying to encourage people to become vegan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 33 minutes ago, TheAuthority said: I think in general anti-animal cruelty activists are very open about the agenda. It is the agricultural business who lie/bully/intimidate and hide their practices To take this in full, it would appear merely to highlight where you sit. It would appear to me that very few people pushing their own agenda (be they anti-animal cruelty activists, anti-meat eating activists, representatives of farmers or big meat producing corporations) are 'very open' about anything. To push that one side are saints and the other are devils betrays an obvious prejudice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted May 31, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted May 31, 2018 I think I mentioned on here recently that I'd had my Facebook feed pop up one those 'this video will change your life' things that a friend had liked. Normally I'd just skip over it but it was clearly some kind of lecture and the thumbnail had a presentation that seemed to be so simple I had to watch out of curiosity. It started innocuous enough, but there was a hard turn part way through to reveal it was actually vegan propaganda. Which is irritating. It had been specifically designed to mislead viewers before the hard sell. Left a bad taste in my mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 As a kid, I had a few formative years on a farm. One of the Countryfile old school farms in some rolling countryside with some picture book animals stood around all day in some bucolic fields. Long summer days in the field, hay baling and drinking cider and all that. Thurston's Farm, Pound Lane, Gwenfo. All that schizz. When it came to disposing of spent animals or slaughtering for food, it was absolutely **** brutal. I say that as a person that's been a city boy, a farm boy, a veggie and a meat eater. People have become detached from their food. Plenty of people don't want to know the process between prize pigs at the county show and how we get 600 catering sausages for under a tenner. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: One of the Countryfile old school farms in some rolling countryside with some picture book animals stood around all day in some bucolic fields. If that comment is directed at my post then you've rather misunderstood what I was saying. I wasn't the one who brought up images of bucolic bliss as a direction to take the debate in. The slightly facetious 'Countryfile' reference was a response to the other extreme. Edited May 31, 2018 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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