Vegetarianism/Veganism

[StefanAVFC]

I've enjoyed reading this thread and it's made me consider my meat-eating (at least the quantity of it) 

Edited June 1, 2018 by StefanAVFC

[mjmooney]

Meat from herbivores famously tastes better than that from carnivores. So if I had to go cannibal (only a matter of time before it becomes the latest food fad), I would definitely prefer to eat vegans. 

[tonyh29]

it's kinda interesting how a lot of people who've given up meat have said  they feel so much better for it  ,  personally I feel great ripping my teeth through a portion of spare ribs , nothing boosts your happiness and well being better than getting that tricky bit of meat out from between the bones that looked impossible at first glance

I think it's well documented that I couldn't be a veggie or a vegan , quite simply I find fruit and veg tastes worse than the devils vomit , but could everything ultimately come down to individuals ? we are all different , what works for A might not work for B ...   I've tried various diets over the years , the one that works for me is meat , meat and more meat ....my energy levels are so much higher , my concentration levels improved  , when i was in my super fit phase and tracked my running times and what I'd eaten  , different diets saw me produce different run times over a period of time (i.e not based on one run ) .... a  brief attempt at trying to eat veg and fruit saw me in hospital with a drip in my arm .. a second attempt having given it the benefit of the doubt also saw me close to a repeat visit  ....  maybe my body was just going into shock and needs to be slowly introduced and given time  , but ultimately I don't want to live in world where spare ribs and crispy crackling are not on the menu  .. but rest assured i won't be starting a thread telling everyone how pig is great and so beneficial for everyone

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 1, 2018 by tonyh29

[snowychap]

21 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

a  brief attempt at trying to eat veg and fruit saw me in hospital with a drip in my arm .. a second attempt having given it the benefit of the doubt also saw me close to a repeat visit

I don't think cucumber and strawberries in a vat of Pimms counts as trying to eat fruit and veg.

[tonyh29]

5 minutes ago, snowychap said:

I don't think cucumber and strawberries in a vat of Pimms counts as trying to eat fruit and veg.

the cucumber is actually the reason I won't drink Pims (when you go to school fetes and what not where it's pre made)   .. i can sorta tolerate the strawberry by throwing it in the bin and it doens't leave much residue taste , but the bloody cucumber !!  even adding more Pims doesn't drown out the taste it leaves behind

Edited June 1, 2018 by tonyh29

[Stevo985]

42 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

but rest assured i won't be starting a thread telling everyone how pig is great and so beneficial for everyone

 

 

Just for clarity, that's not what's happened here.

[tonyh29]

2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Just for clarity, that's not what's happened here.

yeah my bad  ... I wasn't intentionally linking the 2  as I know that wasn't the purpose of the Opening of this topic , meant it more tongue in cheek that I wasn't going to try and advocate a pig only diet

[blandy]

12 hours ago, snowychap said:

The elephant in the room (I know, it's probably abusive to squeeze him in there) is that eating meat at all is to be regarded as animal cruelty.

Well it does involve killing them, which is, y'know, a bit of a bummer for the animal, all things considered. A bit lethal, a bit viscious, a bit hurty. A bit cruel.

[snowychap]

18 minutes ago, blandy said:

Well it does involve killing them, which is, y'know, a bit of a bummer for the animal, all things considered. A bit lethal, a bit viscious, a bit hurty. A bit cruel.

It's not pleasant, I'd fully agree though I see you've couched your descriptions in a particular way - 'a bit x, y, or z'.

My point is that perhaps the people holding that view (i.e. that any sort of meat-eating or killing of animals is necessarily cruel, animal abuse, &c.) should be more honest and open with that. Any conversation thereafter must not be focussed solely on factory farming but on the use of any animal whatsoever in any process - and that's an easy discussion to steer clear of.

Edited June 1, 2018 by snowychap

[blandy]

4 minutes ago, snowychap said:

It's not pleasant, I'd fully agree though I see you've couched your descriptions in a particular way - 'a bit x, y, or z'.

My point is that perhaps the people holding that view (i.e. that any sort of meat-eating or killing of animals is necessarily cruel, animal abuse, &c.) should be more honest and open with that. Any conversation thereafter must not be focussed solely on factory farming but on the use of any animal whatsoever in any process - and that's an easy discussion to steer clear of.

I wrote it that way, because I was trying to be discussion based, not argument based

I think killing animals for humans to "use" - whether for food or footwear or furniture or whatever is ultimately, obviously killing creatures for our benefit when it could be argued we have no need to. It's harmful (cruel) to the animals, to the planet and to us in most part, too. That's kind of fact, really.

Whether we collectively or individually view that as OK or wrong is another issue. I guess the majority of people sort of turn a blind eye and just don't think about it. Others pay more attention perhaps and will generally, when they do, reduce or eliminate their meat consumption, or choose organic or free range - modify their consumption to be less involved in the cruelty as they percieve it.

[BOF]

21 hours ago, TheAuthority said:

Also if 'vegans' or people with an anti-meat agenda are only releasing footage to show the industry in a bad light, why doesn't the industry release footage of all these beautiful rolling fields that the cattle happily graze upon their whole lives? Just show us the film of the cattle and pigs gently being laid to rest before becoming your food.

I think we both know they couldn't do that because the public's sensitivities to animals in general would make it a lose-lose.  "No that's not how we kill them, this is how we kill them" is not going to win them any friends and would be the biggest own goal ever scored

[a m ole]

I do think it’s important to think that most non-human, wild animals will not die of old age. It’s the avoidable suffering I object to.

[a m ole]

2 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

it's kinda interesting how a lot of people who've given up meat have said  they feel so much better for it  ,  personally I feel great ripping my teeth through a portion of spare ribs , nothing boosts your happiness and well being better than getting that tricky bit of meat out from between the bones that looked impossible at first glance

I think it's well documented that I couldn't be a veggie or a vegan , quite simply I find fruit and veg tastes worse than the devils vomit , but could everything ultimately come down to individuals ? we are all different , what works for A might not work for B ...   I've tried various diets over the years , the one that works for me is meat , meat and more meat ....my energy levels are so much higher , my concentration levels improved  , when i was in my super fit phase and tracked my running times and what I'd eaten  , different diets saw me produce different run times over a period of time (i.e not based on one run ) .... a  brief attempt at trying to eat veg and fruit saw me in hospital with a drip in my arm .. a second attempt having given it the benefit of the doubt also saw me close to a repeat visit  ....  maybe my body was just going into shock and needs to be slowly introduced and given time  , but ultimately I don't want to live in world where spare ribs and crispy crackling are not on the menu  .. but rest assured i won't be starting a thread telling everyone how pig is great and so beneficial for everyone

 

 

 

 

 

how vigilant are you about where your meat comes from and how the animal lives its life before it becomes your food? genuine question.

[snowychap]

39 minutes ago, blandy said:

I wrote it that way, because I was trying to be discussion based, not argument based

That's not really helpful, is it (in the context of the objections I previously spoke about)?

If that's how you actually feel then fine and we're not miles apart; if it's not then we're back to the above comments about opening with what you actually mean.

39 minutes ago, blandy said:

I think killing animals for humans to "use" - whether for food or footwear or furniture or whatever is ultimately, obviously killing creatures for our benefit when it could be argued we have no need to. It's harmful (cruel) to the animals, to the planet and to us in most part, too. That's kind of fact, really.

Whether we collectively or individually view that as OK or wrong is another issue. I guess the majority of people sort of turn a blind eye and just don't think about it. Others pay more attention perhaps and will generally, when they do, reduce or eliminate their meat consumption, or choose organic or free range - modify their consumption to be less involved in the cruelty as they percieve it.

I'm not sure that opening up a paragraph with 'I think...' and closing with 'that's kind of fact, really' is a particularly productive way of going about things.

Your last part (other than the reliance on the word 'cruelty') is all fair enough.

There's no qualms from me in having a discussion about what happens (in all the various forms of farming industries, production processes, consumption of meat, and more), about what environmental impact it all has, any potential health benefits in a change in diet, &c. (indeed I'm more than interested in it) and people drawing their conclusions from the facts and the evidence put in front of them (that goes for videos, documentaries, reports such as the one in the article I linked to yesterday, &c. whilst understanding the various biases with which a lot of this stuff will have been produced). Nor are there any qualms from me about anyone changing their behaviours on the back of judging the evidence put in front of them. I'd be surprised if there were too many people who hadn't, at some point in their lives, modified their behaviours because of what they've seen, read or considered on the subject - I certainly have.

Just don't expect me to accept propaganda from anyone on either side of the fence as objective, disinterested fact.

Edited June 1, 2018 by snowychap

[rjw63]

2 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

the cucumber is actually the reason I won't drink Pims (when you go to school fetes and what not where it's pre made)   .. i can sorta tolerate the strawberry by throwing it in the bin and it doens't leave much residue taste , but the bloody cucumber !!  even adding more Pims doesn't drown out the taste it leaves behind

I'm with you on the cucumber, probably my most hated food. tastes and smells disgusting.

In fact the only use for cucumbers that I can agree with is female mastubatory aids (eh @Rugeley Villa?)

[tonyh29]

1 hour ago, a m ole said:

how vigilant are you about where your meat comes from and how the animal lives its life before it becomes your food? genuine question.

to an extent i rely on my supermarket / butcher making that choice for me ....I walk around the supermarket and pickup whatever meat takes my fancy and don't really  give it much thought if I'm honest , I doubt that many people do in all honesty ? meat they don't seem to make such a big deal about how it was raised , maybe they should ?  maybe a packet with these sausages were made from Percy and  resulted  in Percy's 8 kids not having a father might make me reach for the Quorn instead

  if my pig grew up on a country estate with daily hand jobs from Rebbeca Loos and a diet of classical music or lived in a field with barbed wire and rap music , I'm not that concerned .. don't get me wrong I like animals , heck I once got “abused “ on here cause I posted that  I'd rather give money to save the red panda than give money to save humans , but pigs and cows are bred for food not to be pets

 

Edited June 1, 2018 by tonyh29

[PompeyVillan]

I don't see killing and eating animals as inherently cruel. I never will. 

But there are cruel ways to keep and slaughter animals. 

[Rugeley Villa]

1 hour ago, rjw63 said:

I'm with you on the cucumber, probably my most hated food. tastes and smells disgusting.

In fact the only use for cucumbers that I can agree with is female mastubatory aids (eh @Rugeley Villa?)

The only thing they are good for, IMHO

[Rugeley Villa]

1 hour ago, PompeyVillan said:

I don't see killing and eating animals as inherently cruel. I never will. 

But there are cruel ways to keep and slaughter animals. 

Same here. It's not the killing of animals I'm against, although I think we kill far too many. It's the way they are treated, and then slaughtered. 

[blandy]

2 hours ago, snowychap said:

I'm not sure that opening up a paragraph with 'I think...' and closing with 'that's kind of fact, really' is a particularly productive way of going about things.

I don't understand your point here at all, Snowy - One sentence being an "I think this..." followed by another sentence asserting as pretty much a universal fact that meat eating is harmful (cruel) to the animals, to the planet and to humans in most part. [The slight easing back bit ('that's kind of fact, really") was because (obviously) it tends to be eating too much red meat that harms humans the most].

Agree with the rest of your reply, though.