Rob182 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 47 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: I think we need to be careful about making assumptions on the youth players - there are in my opinion five that could help, two or three of which are something of a known quantity. They are Davis, Hepburn-Murphy, O'Hare, Green and Doyle-Hayes. Four of those are forwards. I think we've got problems at the back - we need a keeper or a Gollini miracle, a back up (or starting) left back and a couple of centre halves. If we want to keep Grealish, then the question for me is how much money can we get for Kodjia and Hogan. Numbers wise we're short - we need a keeper, defenders and maybe wingers - our older players will be older still this year and will need to be carefully managed - I'm not confident on the ability of Jedinak or Whelan to deliver in 2019. None of that is about making us better, or improving the squad, that's about keeping the numbers up so that we don't end up having to start strange formations or benches with five strikers on them. There's a huge uncertainty going into next season and it seems to me at least that we're unlikely to start the season as a settled unit. I think this one goes down as a season where we reset and reframe the problem before maybe having another tilt at promotion in 20/21 - if things go well. I agree with your assessment of what we need, but don’t agree that bringing in the ‘must haves’ will only leave us treading water. For all the experience we brought in last season, we still weren’t exactly formidable. I put that squarely with the manager, which is another unknown quantity for next season. At least until a statement is made by the club. For this reason, I think there is still potential for us to be up there in the 1st-6th places. Let’s say we bring in some frugal additions, like James Collins on a free, another ‘experienced’ free defender and maybe another loan keeper from a Prem team. I still think we have a good enough squad for a (different) manager to get them playing and challenging. However, if we stick with Bruce, then I think we will just plod along in mid-to-upper-table, before we fail to reach promotion again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 8 hours ago, Darth Villa said: Fair point @hippo, and he also came in talking about the size of our transfer kitty that first season which I equally thought was a mistake. He doesn't seem that naive to me now either. All that aside, I think he learns quickly and understands that he can't get value from his investment if he lets the club go down the pan. He will find a way because he has to or the loses will mount and we're screwed and he's blown his chance at the whole Aston redevelopment aspect that is worth £ billions... I'm taking a glass half full view until I have absolute proof he's actually a bigger plonker than Randy and his mob - not impossible, hopefully highly unlikely!! I think he is better than lerner - as least he appointed an experienced CEO, but we are in a tougher place now. Hope to god he has a clever plan up his sleeve - but that would surprise me. Given, despite all the bluster about RECON - what they seem to do most is buy and sell companies, it really wouldn't surprise if Xia dispenses with Aston Villa in the not to distant future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 We need to reduce costs by £45m - with none of that re invested into the playing side. - and Launch a promotion bid of the back of that. going to be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praisedmambo Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 9 minutes ago, hippo said: We need to reduce costs by £45m - with none of that re invested into the playing side. - and Launch a promotion bid of the back of that. going to be interesting. Considering we were ok last year and that parachute payments are £20million less this year, I can't imagine where you got £45million from. I'm depressed about it all but I wonder if this is a bit of a guess and exaggeration. With no wages for Gabby, Terry, Hutton you could probably knock off another ten million there too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, praisedmambo said: Considering we were ok last year and that parachute payments are £20million less this year, I can't imagine where you got £45million from. I'm depressed about it all but I wonder if this is a bit of a guess and exaggeration. With no wages for Gabby, Terry, Hutton you could probably knock off another ten million there too. There is a site called swiss ramble (look in the FFP thread) - they say it is only an estimate. The site does have quite a good reputation though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 (edited) How much will we save on wages on? Terry - £60k Snodgrass - £45k Onomah - £20k Samba - £30k Johnstone - £25k Tuanzebe - £20k Hutton - £30k Gabby - £30k Grabban - £30k Estimated - £290k per week = £15m Sales Adomah - £7m Hogan - £4m McCormack - £2m Elphick - £3m Gil - £3m Amavi - £8m (not sure if we can count this) That's £27m + £15m = £42m Edited May 29, 2018 by omariqy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSV Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 1 hour ago, omariqy said: How much will we save on wages on? Terry - £60k Snodgrass - £45k Onomah - £20k Samba - £30k Johnstone - £25k Tuanzebe - £20k Hutton - £30k Gabby - £30k Grabban - £30k Estimated - £290k per week = £15m Sales Adomah - £7m Hogan - £4m McCormack - £2m Elphick - £3m Gil - £3m Amavi - £8m (not sure if we can count this) That's £27m + £15m = £42m Amavi wont count i dont think. Rename Villa Park to Recon Park for 20 million. Problem solved. Rename it for 35 million and we have 15 million to spend ;). Easy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 Fine margins and luck with injuries in this division. We need someone in the final third to just have one of those seasons where everything clicks for them. I don't think there is much between the top 10-12 clubs in the division. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Villa Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, hippo said: I think he is better than lerner - as least he appointed an experienced CEO, but we are in a tougher place now. Hope to god he has a clever plan up his sleeve - but that would surprise me. Given, despite all the bluster about RECON - what they seem to do most is buy and sell companies, it really wouldn't surprise if Xia dispenses with Aston Villa in the not to distant future. I don't so much think he has a cunning plan, more of a pragmatic outlook. We have sell on clauses in place for Veretout, Gil is definitely leaving etc..etc.. I'm not sure what it all adds up to but I don't believe we are as screwed as many are fearing. The big shift will have to be towards a different playing style and a longer-term plan (in my opinion) as experienced Pro's and buying the league hasn't worked for us. That's raises the question about Bruce and is he the right man for that sort of approach. This for me is what the summer will be about or as you highlighted he might decide we're beyond him and look to sell the club but I feel as though he's personally invested now so I'm hoping it won't come to that. Unless we can get someone with even more cash and a proven plan to bypass any FFP restriction Edited May 29, 2018 by Darth Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 Some of the figures people expect us to get for 30 year old Championship journeymen are laughable tbh. Besides, it is way to early to be drawing up teamsheets and getting in a panic over what we have left. Bree at CB for **** sake. That just isn't going to happen. There will be plenty of ins and outs before the first game of the season. Bruce will have to wheel and deal. He has done it before, he will do it again. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Darth Villa said: I don't so much think he has a cunning plan, more of a pragmatic outlook. We have sell on clauses in place for Veretout, Gil is definitely leaving etc..etc.. I'm not sure what it all adds up to but I don't believe we are as screwed as many are fearing. The big shift will have to be towards a different playing style and a longer-term plan (in my opinion) as experienced Pro's and buying the league hasn't worked for us. That's raises the question about Bruce and is he the right man for that sort of approach. This for me is what the summer will be about or as you highlighted he might decide we're beyond him and look to sell the club but I feel as though he's personally invested now so I'm hoping it won't come to that. Unless we can get someone with even more cash and a proven plan to bypass any FFP restriction Xia gave it a good crack for 2 years as did randy - will be interesting to see if he has the passion to be in this for the long haul or not . Edited May 29, 2018 by Eastie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiezels Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 I think we’ll make a shit load back in wages. I know a family member of Johnstones and he said he was on series wedge here. Let alone the original high earners (gabby, Richards, Hutton etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted May 29, 2018 Moderator Share Posted May 29, 2018 6 hours ago, hippo said: 6 hours ago, praisedmambo said: Considering we were ok last year and that parachute payments are £20million less this year, I can't imagine where you got £45million from. I'm depressed about it all but I wonder if this is a bit of a guess and exaggeration. With no wages for Gabby, Terry, Hutton you could probably knock off another ten million there too. There is a site called swiss ramble (look in the FFP thread) - they say it is only an estimate. The site does have quite a good reputation though. This is the start of their thread on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 I also posted the whole ramble in the FFP thread this morning. @spiezels I’m afraid Richards contract isn’t up yet. So he’ll still be fleecing us for 50k+ p/w 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Villa Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 9 hours ago, Eastie said: Xia gave it a good crack for 2 years as did randy - will be interesting to see if he has the passion to be in this for the long haul or not . I think you've hit the nail on the head @Eastie, the only man whose opinion and wealth really matters is Xia. He seems truly passionate about our club and he went for the arguably "logical" (but not risk free) approach on paper when backing Bruce to secure promotion for a 5th time. I genuinely hope he (Xia) sticks around as I think he could redevelop the club and local area to give us a fighting chance of truly competing with the very best in the longer-term. As you suggested, it will be interesting to watch events unfold on and off the pitch this summer. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSteveUK Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Gabby on 30K ?????? Since when ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skills Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 On 27/05/2018 at 16:45, Demitri_C said: I can't see us challenging next year. The amount of work needed is incredible. We will use youngsters and loans to fill the gaps and I can see it taking a good 2-5 years before we do. This was the chance and they blew it. Adios snodgrass you blew it a chance to stay here permanently now you return to a club that dont want you and you are in limbo. Terry and Johnstone will be massive losses as you will see next season. We need so many players and not allowed to spend big. Ffp is a **** joke. I usually love your posts and enjoy looking at your profile pic so keep it up but I cant see how we don't challenge next year im sure we will find a keeper to replace Johnstone which wont come at a huge costs, probably net neutral from the money we are supposedly getting for Gollini Terry leaves so be it, elphick comes in as third choice meaning we really need 1 more CB - potentially a loan for Tuanzebe. Mind you De Leat comes back as well. Snoddy goes, in comes Green who if fit probably would be starting ahead of him imho, out goes Grabban in comes a fit Kodj I think the starting line up is just about there for next year barring anyone coming in with over the top money for Chester or Grealish I cant see any others departing who would be missed with a few shrewd loanings, we will be better than this year! UTV 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skills Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 On 27/05/2018 at 18:20, jacketspuds said: The problem that we will have from now on is that relegated PL teams are getting massive parachute payments to help with the transition. If you look at Stoke for example, they will also have quit a bit of money available from selling the likes of Butland, Allen and Shaquiri. Can't remember who we actually sold when we got relegated. West Brom are in a really strong position too. Going to be a real tough one next season and I feel that we could be down here for a long time unless Dr Tony manages to find a way round FFP, like Wolves. Just like Sunderland, Hull and Boro last season? or maybe like us the year before? I think we all agree its very difficult to bounce straight back up 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 3 hours ago, Skills said: Just like Sunderland, Hull and Boro last season? or maybe like us the year before? I think we all agree its very difficult to bounce straight back up Very well said. Not aimed at any particular Poster but it amazes me how ready some are to assume we are doomed. In my view, far from it. We are just in a battle,mwhich is surely the point of watching in the first place ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 3 hours ago, Skills said: I usually love your posts and enjoy looking at your profile pic so keep it up but I cant see how we don't challenge next year im sure we will find a keeper to replace Johnstone which wont come at a huge costs, probably net neutral from the money we are supposedly getting for Gollini Terry leaves so be it, elphick comes in as third choice meaning we really need 1 more CB - potentially a loan for Tuanzebe. Mind you De Leat comes back as well. Snoddy goes, in comes Green who if fit probably would be starting ahead of him imho, out goes Grabban in comes a fit Kodj I think the starting line up is just about there for next year barring anyone coming in with over the top money for Chester or Grealish I cant see any others departing who would be missed with a few shrewd loanings, we will be better than this year! UTV Thanks for the kind words pal Yeah i think tuanzebe is back in summer if reports are true. Hopefully bruce actually plays him cb not rb! If definitely keep elphick like you say. Hopefully chester sticks around as well then maybe we might only need one cb or promote a youngster. The problem with green is he is so injury prone its unreal. We definitely need another winger. As much as I like snodds he was too friggin slow. Also i noticed as the season went on his set pieces got worse and worse. He was shite in the final as well. Terry for will be the big loss his leadership is critical here. We need a solid cm whelan and jedinak are too old. We saw that in the cup final with jedinak his weaknesses. He should be a impact sub. Id try flog whelan off. I also think its time to sue lansbury more. The problem is I don't see where the signings will come from. We have to sell before we can bring anyone in if this supposed 40m hole is true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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