Popular Post bannedfromHandV Posted October 9, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted October 9, 2023 This seemingly indiscriminate bombing of Gaza should be treated as a war crime. Of course it won’t because we’re all meant to take Israel’s side (BBC doing their level best to present it this way). It’s disgusting, this isn’t how any reasonable or right thinking government should respond to a terrorist attack, although of course it’s inkeeping with how Israel have conducted themselves since being gifted land that wasn’t theirs. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 11 minutes ago, CVByrne said: I suppose going in to specifically target and murder innocent people is different from wanting to kill your enemy and accepting the deaths of innocents as "collateral damage". The staggering numbers don't really show any attempt to only target the enemy. Main difference between the two is level of weaponry, neither Hamas or the IDF regard either people as human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 15 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: This seemingly indiscriminate bombing of Gaza should be treated as a war crime. Of course it won’t because we’re all meant to take Israel’s side (BBC doing their level best to present it this way). It’s disgusting, this isn’t how any reasonable or right thinking government should respond to a terrorist attack, although of course it’s inkeeping with how Israel have conducted themselves since being gifted land that wasn’t theirs. Look at how the United States of America responded to 9/11 - Invaded two countries, bombed them, occupied them. It seems par for the course type of response from militaristic countries who don't value human life equally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 9 minutes ago, Jareth said: The staggering numbers don't really show any attempt to only target the enemy. Main difference between the two is level of weaponry, neither Hamas or the IDF regard either people as human. I agree to an extent but I don’t know if that tells the whole truth. I suspect if the Hamas leadership had access to Israeli levels of weaponry and the Israeli citizens were sitting ducks in Gaza there would not be any Israelis left pretty quickly. I also suspect there are plenty of Israeli citizens who are more extreme than their (already extreme) government and would like to see that happen to the Palestinians. Maybe we are splitting hairs but it feels like there are levels here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 7 minutes ago, CVByrne said: Look at how the United States of America responded to 9/11 - Invaded two countries, bombed them, occupied them. It seems par for the course type of response from militaristic countries who don't value human life equally. I don’t think America just immediately started bombing a densely populated city the next day, I could be wrong of course. Also, the US hadn’t been pushing those people in the same way that Israel has been Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 There's one thing for sure though, it's a completely unsolvable problem. There is no solution to the conflict. Only thing remotely possible as a solution would be Egypt taking control of Gaza (again). Then trying to find a workable solution in West Bank. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: I don’t think America just immediately started bombing a densely populated city the next day, I could be wrong of course. Also, the US hadn’t been pushing those people in the same way that Israel has been I meant, send in army, attack military targets, there will be civilian casualties. That's the standard response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-k Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 1 minute ago, CVByrne said: There's one thing for sure though, it's a completely unsolvable problem. There is no solution to the conflict. Only thing remotely possible as a solution would be Egypt taking control of Gaza (again). Then trying to find a workable solution in West Bank. Egypt do not want the Palestinians, nor do any other Arab country. I wonder why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 Terrorist organisation vs terrorist state. No-one cares about the civilians involved on "either side". It remains a desperately sad situation. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 (edited) 34 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: I don’t think America just immediately started bombing a densely populated city the next day, I could be wrong of course. Also, the US hadn’t been pushing those people in the same way that Israel has been Cynically, the US used Sept 11 as cover for war profiteering, resource theft and aggressive domestic surveillance, which is in many ways more repugnant than this reactive carpet bombing of Gaza, which might (playing devil's advocate) be justified as a tactically appropriate response to an actual attack by a sworn enemy. Edited October 9, 2023 by maqroll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 On 07/10/2023 at 18:23, LondonLax said: There will of course be many Palestinian’s who are devastated by this behaviour. ok, I'll do it a third time out of courtesy and then, if there's no response for a third time, I'll leave it, but I'll assume you meant this to be as sarcastic as it sounds. Did you mean for this to read sarcastically LL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 44 minutes ago, LondonLax said: I agree to an extent but I don’t know if that tells the whole truth. I suspect if the Hamas leadership had access to Israeli levels of weaponry and the Israeli citizens were sitting ducks in Gaza there would not be any Israelis left pretty quickly. I also suspect there are plenty of Israeli citizens who are more extreme than their (already extreme) government and would like to see that happen to the Palestinians. Maybe we are splitting hairs but it feels like there are levels here. Yeah this is correct I think. Picking sides based on who is the underdog kind of ignores what the underdog’s objectives are. Hamas wants to wipe out the state of Israel. Plenty of hardline Israelis want to pretty much do the same to Palestine. These kind of people on either side can never really get you anywhere near a solution. Was the same in Northern Ireland, same in Yugoslavia, etc. They always think history is on their side and that they are correcting a historic injustice, but who’s to say the world in 100 BC or 1800 or 1949 is the appropriate time to say when a plot of land rightly belonged to a particular “people” (if that even means anything definable either). Zionism was a misguided, utopian project IMO because it involved displacing a settled population, but now the state of Israel has existed for nearly a century there’s no reversing that, and so the only thing that makes sense is a two state solution. But there will always be people on both sides who will try to stop that from happening. And the victims are all the civilians who just want to live normal lives where they were born and raised. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 39 minutes ago, a-k said: Egypt do not want the Palestinians, nor do any other Arab country. I wonder why. There is no need to wonder, Iran have soured pretty much every other nation’s feeling towards Gaza by pumping guns, extremists and totalitarian views into it. The only other place that tolerate this is Lebanon due to their issue with the same Iranian backed issue. A few years back one of the scandi countries tracked their donations to humanitarian aid to Gaza to a ‘book shop’ that made books for schools there. Including pages that showed women without hijab as valid targets for obscene things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 Not an entirely unwelcome attack for Netanyahu and his goon squad, because now they can unleash hell, completely unrestrained. But the number of dead Israeli civilians will hurt him badly with the centrist electorate and even ardent supporters. This is a complete fiasco for his coalition and people will demand to know why the security posture of a government they thought would take a hard line against Hamas has lapsed so catastrophically. Well maybe it was by design? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 14 minutes ago, maqroll said: Not an entirely unwelcome attack for Netanyahu and his goon squad, because now they can unleash hell, completely unrestrained. But the number of dead Israeli civilians will hurt him badly with the centrist electorate and even ardent supporters. This is a complete fiasco for his coalition and people will demand to know why the security posture of a government they thought would take a hard line against Hamas has lapsed so catastrophically. Well maybe it was by design? The problem is it doesn’t really help him. And there is a more mundane explanation which is that the involvement of more and more incompetent far right loons in the Israeli administration has just weakened their ability to keep on top of threats. The military and intelligence were understaffed because so many young Israelis wanted nothing to do with Netanyahu. Hamas have seized the opportunity and most likely this now forces Netanyahu to do things he didn’t really want to do, to demonstrate his tough guy credentials, while still likely getting forced out. It’s just a mess. The conspiracy theories will do the rounds, but do we really need an explanation for why Hamas or Israel would behave in the ways they’re behaving beyond the obvious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 32 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said: ok, I'll do it a third time out of courtesy and then, if there's no response for a third time, I'll leave it, but I'll assume you meant this to be as sarcastic as it sounds. Did you mean for this to read sarcastically LL? You seem to be the only one who thought that and I am not sure why you would? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted October 9, 2023 Moderator Share Posted October 9, 2023 The EU have stopped aid to Gaza - it wasn't a great place to live as it was - it's becoming unliveable for more than 2 million people and it's hard to see how they have any sort of future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mandy Lifeboats Posted October 9, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted October 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: The EU have stopped aid to Gaza - it wasn't a great place to live......... and it's hard to see how they have any sort of future. That's a very harsh assessment of the EU. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 19 minutes ago, LondonLax said: You seem to be the only one who thought that and I am not sure why you would? No, no, I asked a question. I did that so as to understand what you meant. I find communication a lot easier if you engage with people. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 I assume your answer is no btw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts