The Video Assistant Referee (VAR)

[sharkyvilla]

With the automated offside technology the players have about 30 sensors each on them and a sensor in the ball, would they be able to detect where on the body the ball has hit them as well as their general position?  It might be able to make this kind of decision at the end of the game a lot quicker.  Either way I think more technology is the answer and less human VAR involvement.

[The_Steve]

Zouma's handball at 0:36 was given. Where's the consistency?

[tinker]

6 minutes ago, The_Steve said:

Zouma's handball at 0:36 was given. Where's the consistency?

There isn't any. 

[foreveryoung]

1 hour ago, VillaChris said:

Can't believe how bad the angles were for the two disallowed West Ham goals. I think that's a big problem for the delay to VAR decisions. Premier league boosts about having 30-40 cameras at pretty much all the games now and yet none can clearly show a player handling the ball? Even when the ref went over to have a look it took them nearly a minute to switch the screen on.

These events are happening near the goalline so there's really no excuse to have multiple angles so that players going in don't obscure the image from one angle.

The actual game footage seems to have a better view most of the time. Fans and commentators know in the first 30 seconds, so why does VAR have to take 4 minutes. 

For me, like on the pitch, they are looking at it too technically, when really most of these decisions can be made with a 30 second look and some common sense.

[The_Steve]

9 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

The actual game footage seems to have a better view most of the time. Fans and commentators know in the first 30 seconds, so why does VAR have to take 4 minutes. 

For me, like on the pitch, they are looking at it too technically, when really most of these decisions can be made with a 30 second look and some common sense.

Should have taken 30 seconds to see the clear foul on Ezri and ruled it out from there 

[Follyfoot]

3 hours ago, villa4europe said:

Yeah I actually don't mind that not being a penalty, what is the defender to do? His arm is there because he's pointing to a team mate not because he's trying to block the ball, hard to tell if it's clever by Bailey but from that distance there's not a lot the defender can do

But at the same time that is 100% being given at anfield and OT, no doubt about it

The player stops a forward attacking pass to another attacking player (who has created space)  with his arm in an unnatural angle. He should not be pointing at another player and this is completely irrelevant anyway, it’s a clearcut penalty. What happens if the pliayer is on the line pointing to the goalkeeper to save it, and it stops it going in the net by hitting his arm?

[Stevo985]

4 hours ago, Zatman said:

Its not a penalty for me but its definitely given for United/Liverpool

Yeah this is where I am. I don’t think you give that with the proximity of the player to the ball. But could 100% see it given for a big team 

[brommy]

If that's not a penalty, why do defenders bother tucking their arms behind the body?

If that doesn't constitute handball, why don't defenders make themselves bigger by having their arms out whilst pointing?

[Follyfoot]

35 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Yeah this is where I am. I don’t think you give that with the proximity of the player to the ball. But could 100% see it given for a big team 

If it happens on the line, it’s a clear penalty, so if it happens in the box, the same applies. His hand in a unnatural position stopped the ball, going to another player in a goal scoring or advanced position.

Edited March 17 by Follyfoot

[bobzy]

On 17/03/2024 at 17:33, The_Steve said:

Zouma's handball at 0:36 was given. Where's the consistency?

FWIW, that Zouma handball is him moving his arm toward the ball, away from his body.

Close proximity still, but very different to the incident in our game where the West Ham player (who?) had his arm out pointing and just kept it out pointing before the ball hit it.  He didn't move toward the ball or make an effort to make his body bigger or whatever, his arm was just there.

I think there's an argument for both a penalty and a non-penalty but in terms of "consistency", these are very different handball situations IMO.

[Brumstopdogs]

https://www.premierleague.com/news/3935247

The following Villa incidents are covered:

Quote

West Ham's disallowed goal v Aston Villa

Aston Villa's penalty appeal v West Ham

McGinn's red card against Spurs

 

[Brumstopdogs]

 

[Mark Albrighton]

So when the Sheffield Saudis were hammered 8-0 by the Geordie Saudis earlier the season and Gordon (?) handled it and then set up a goal (I think the opener)…that wasn’t considered deliberate?

Or has the rule changed since then?

[May-Z]

That video just shows what a nonsense it all is. 

Look how long it's taken to disallow a goal where a player clearly uses his arm to knock it in. 

Not to mention an offside player at the start having an impact on our players to get back into defensive positions. 

Also, I get the feeling that there would be some interpretations where if it had come of Bowen (but not his hand) then the handball could've been ignored for some reason.

[JPJCB]

3 hours ago, Brumstopdogs said:

 

I had to stop watching this halfway through cause it was so dull and frustrating but what I don’t get is why they decided to move on from the offside decision so quickly? They said something like- “it’s probably offside but let’s check the handball first to see if there’s a clear cut decision there”. Why bother when you can just draw the lines and get your offside decision in about 30 seconds rather than than the agonising handball discussion that follows?
 

More to the point, calling offside is surely more clear cut than a handball decision. The comments on that tweet are full of West Ham fans arguing that it’s not intentional

[bobzy]

10 minutes ago, JPJCB said:

I had to stop watching this halfway through cause it was so dull and frustrating but what I don’t get is why they decided to move on from the offside decision so quickly? They said something like- “it’s probably offside but let’s check the handball first to see if there’s a clear cut decision there”. Why bother when you can just draw the lines and get your offside decision in about 30 seconds rather than than the agonising handball discussion that follows?
 

More to the point, calling offside is surely more clear cut than a handball decision. The comments on that tweet are full of West Ham fans arguing that it’s not intentional

The player in question wasn’t offside - which you’d have seen, if you watched the video for a further minute or so.

[Mark Albrighton]

14 minutes ago, bobzy said:

The player in question wasn’t offside - which you’d have seen, if you watched the video for a further minute or so.

I suppose it might be expected that they’d look at things in chronological order. So they might go “Check for offside, draw lines…oh no he’s on. Ok now let’s have a look at the handball.”

My only guess is that they originally thought the handball would be more obvious than the (possible) offside so it would be easier to come to a conclusion based on that. 
 

To be honest, watching it I thought it was all fine, it seemed to work and made sense (the club I support benefited so there is that conflict of interest in my opinion there). It’s just how long it took. 

Edited March 20 by Mark Albrighton

[AndyClarke]

He was about a yard offside, they just decided it wasn't an offence, which it clearly was. He blocked retreating defenders and the call ended up about where they'd have been.

[jimmygreaves]

Watching those VAR videos back is astonishing. It's just so amateurish. These are examples of the var team working well apparently which the powers that be have deemed worthy of public release. 

There's little fixed process, the language used is not professional, the decision making process is utterly ad-hoc. It's just crazy that this is deemed acceptable in a billion pound industry where these decisions could cost clubs significant amounts of money.

[StefanAVFC]

On 07/03/2024 at 14:22, villa4europe said:

But us being bitter over old decisions is a prime example as to the problem we have and why VAR isn't that problem 

VAR would not have sent vidic off....

Dowd saw it and chose to ignore the rules

The refs are the problem 

Young's penalty also wouldn't have been overturned because of the high bar...